Talent, Math, and Luck

[iamhubby1]

Well lets just hope we get an OC who already likes to run our scheme and not one that's stepping out of his element just to get a job. That's why I say hell no to Shurmur. I really hope Whisenhunt doesn't get that Eagles job.

Between Rivera, who is probably going to have final say, and Gettlemen, they have a poo load of contacts. We will get someone they want. Not someone they have to settle for.

See, that is the one thing folks are hesitant to grasp. We now have a GM and a HC who both are knowledgeable and respected. That goes a long way to getting a staff together. And by extension, putting a winning culture together.

[frash.exe]

Jovan Haye had some great years with the Bucs.

Just like Jeremy Bridges and Tyler Brayton had their best years with us. I wouldn't say Haye did great and I wouldn't say we couldn't develop him because we barely held on to him when he came in. At the time we had Rucker, Peppers, and Al Wallace at DE and we weren't really using a heavy rotation.

Dan Connor blew us up as linebacker for the Cowboys when we played this year.

which doesn't discount the fact that he looked just as inconsistent there as he did here.

Jerome Felton had a good year,

Jerome Felton is a pro bowler, but the Panthers cut him because they were looking to upgrade, it wasn't that he couldn't lead block when he was here. He was playing fullback for us for the majority of our record-setting efficiency in the running game last year.

and so did Reggie Nelson.

Reggie Nelson has never played for us.

I'm not going to say that you don't have good points in terms of poor position allocation, but development is development. The Giants look like they're geniuses when it comes to drafting, but they're really geniuses when it comes to developing. Same said with the Patriots, Steelers, Packers, and now the 49ers that's why they're winning consistently. It's called a program.

I'm not going to argue that those teams don't have better programs than we do. Because they do. But it's not just the coaching and development. It's the evaluation at the ground level that also helped set them separate from us. I'm hoping that changes with Gettleman in the lead role.

[Marguide]

... Looking back at our kicker situation shows that we might as well have had Charlie Brown out there, and if your kicker is one of the worst in the business then I know I'd sure as hell have to put more thought into what would be a normal kicking situation for normal kickers...

... And anyone who criticizes the punt against ATL can kick rocks because that decision played out perfectly, we just had abysmal defensive execution between the likes of Nakamura and Norman afterwards.

... How on Earth does anyone have any clue what was said between Rivera, Chud, Hurney, and JR? You make the wild assumption that Chud is sitting up in the booth barking the plays into Rivera's ear while Ron passively replies "...ok, whatever you say, just don't beat me after the game like last time please...".

I'm just going to respond to a few key things for now as I'm typing on my phone.

1) The FG example - in this case, the choice was to try a 50 yard field goal or a hail mary pass as the half expired. The odds of any NFL kicker (from best to worst) making a 50 yarder are much, much greater than completing a hail mary pass. But Ron preferred to take a flier on a possible 3 points to harming the psyche of his kicker (his words, not mine).

2) The punt on 4th down - did I reference that decision? The game I mentioned was our last game of the year in 2011. It was the 4th qtr, we were down by maybe 18 or 20 points with 8+ minutes on the clock. Ball was around the 37 of NO and it was like 4th and 5. We punted. In that situation, we might as well have just sent out a white flag and gone to the locker room early.

3) Posters aren't worthy to comment due to lack of 1st person knowledge- give me a break. Who called plays and designed our offense? Hurney? JR? Rivera? Surely even you know better than that. Feel free to go on thinking that JR fired Hurney but stopped short of having a come to jesus meeting with Ron. And feel free to thing that suddenly Chud decided to go to a more conventional offense without first getting his butt chewed by Rivera. I wasn't there and you weren't there, but most reasonable people would agree that my conjecture is probably pretty close to the truth.

I'll be happy to continue this discussion once I'm back on a full sized keyboard.

[iamhubby1]

I'm hoping that changes with Gettleman in the lead role.

A positive note from Mister Love. Zod I think I may just love this interwebz thingy.

That one hire alone should go a long way in getting us back on track. Folks need to put away their Hurndog hate and come along for the ride. Cuz if it starts from the top? We have our man in place.

Oh, and throw in Cam and the future is looking pretty good to me.

[TheMaulClaw]

Just like Jeremy Bridges and Tyler Brayton had their best years with us. I wouldn't say Haye did great and I wouldn't say we couldn't develop him because we barely held on to him when he came in. At the time we had Rucker, Peppers, and Al Wallace at DE and we weren't really using a heavy rotation.

which doesn't discount the fact that he looked just as inconsistent there as he did here.

Jerome Felton is a pro bowler, but the Panthers cut him because they were looking to upgrade, it wasn't that he couldn't lead block when he was here. He was playing fullback for us for the majority of our record-setting efficiency in the running game last year.

Reggie Nelson has never played for us.

I'm not going to argue that those teams don't have better programs than we do. Because they do. But it's not just the coaching and development. It's the evaluation at the ground level that also helped set them separate from us. I'm hoping that changes with Gettleman in the lead role.

Yep your right, it's late got him confused with Reggie Smith....I concede the debate....even though I do thing development in the past has been our issue.

[SCPantherFan90]

I'm just going to respond to a few key things for now as I'm typing on my phone.

1) The FG example - in this case, the choice was to try a 50 yard field goal or a hail mary pass as the half expired. The odds of any NFL kicker (from best to worst) making a 50 yarder are much, much greater than completing a hail mary pass. But Ron preferred to take a flier on a possible 3 points to harming the psyche of his kicker (his words, not mine).

2) The punt on 4th down - did I reference that decision? The game I mentioned was our last game of the year in 2011. It was the 4th qtr, we were down by maybe 18 or 20 points with 8+ minutes on the clock. Ball was around the 37 of NO and it was like 4th and 5. We punted. In that situation, we might as well have just sent out a white flag and gone to the locker room early.

3) Posters aren't worthy to comment due to lack of 1st person knowledge- give me a break. Who called plays and designed our offense? Hurney? JR? Rivera? Surely even you know better than that. Feel free to go on thinking that JR fired Hurney but stopped short of having a come to jesus meeting with Ron. And feel free to thing that suddenly Chud decided to go to a more conventional offense without first getting his butt chewed by Rivera. I wasn't there and you weren't there, but most reasonable people would agree that my conjecture is probably pretty close to the truth.

I'll be happy to continue this discussion once I'm back on a full sized keyboard.

FWIW my responses weren't aimed specifiaclly at you, but as mentioned in my post, the ones who blatantly discuss their lack of faith in this team who like to use the arguments you mentioned. I'm not classifying you in that group so don't take offense.

Like I said, Im not claiming rivera to be a great coach or even a good one, but I'd say he's about average and has shown recent improvement on what can be judged of him. I also wasnt claiming that YOU were discussing the ATL punt, but was that not a topic of heated debate here? And i agree with you on your punt reference.I would've gone for it 100% in that situation. And I in no way mentioned that people aren't allowed to comment just because they don't have first-hand knowledge. And im not sure where youre getting these thoughts that ive had about the conversations between rivera/chud etc, because my argument is that i DONT know for sure whats happening behind the curtains. Im stating that some folks hate on rivera for things they don't even know he was truly the problem for, which is ignorant. We could go game by game of his 2 years here and could find some truly boneheaded moves and we could find some things that have other explanations if you look a little deeper.

I'm just recommending that the rivera haters take a chill pill and realize that giving him one more year isn't the end of the world. I realize that it's kind of random and seems specific since I replied to you, but i thought your points were the main arguments that anti-Rivera posters have. Plus, there is a boatload of similar threads and I didn't feel like making another one. Just trying to change some perspectives, that's all. Lol

[Ivan The Awesome]

What a wonderful thread.

[rayzor]

And anyone who criticizes the punt against ATL can kick rocks because that decision played out perfectly, we just had abysmal defensive execution between the likes of Nakamura and Norman afterwards.

lol go kick rocks yourself.

that played out perfectly? it LOST THE GAME!!!! if that's perfection then they need to do something else. that was my point....its too easy to blow up. its a faulty strategy because of how easy it is for an offense to exploit and get the ball down the field in just a matter of seconds.

the defense was getting torched all day and all the falcons needed to do was get in field goal range. why should that situation be any different?

the only safe place for a ball to be is in your hands. the only way to protect a score is scoring more or not letting the other team touch the ball, and in that situation it entirely preventable.

rivera invited them to score by giving them the ball and they took him up on it.

[SCPantherFan90]

lol go kick rocks yourself.

that played out perfectly? it LOST THE GAME!!!! if that's perfection then they need to do something else. that was my point....its too easy to blow up. its a faulty strategy because of how easy it is for an offense to exploit and get the ball down the field in just a matter of seconds.

the defense was getting torched all day and all the falcons needed to do was get in field goal range. why should that situation be any different?

the only safe place for a ball to be is in your hands. the only way to protect a score is scoring more or not letting the other team touch the ball, and in that situation it entirely preventable.

rivera invited them to score by giving them the ball and they took him up on it.

Captain Hindsight. So you're saying putting the ball at the opposing team's 1 yard line when they have no timeouts with 1 minute remaining is a bad decision? Listen, I'm all for aggressive play calling, but your'e hating on a good call, with TERRIBLE player execution. How about take into account that everyone knows Matt Ryan has a noodle for an arm, and threw the equivalent of a last second hail mary (which was a complete floater) into double coverage, that should have been swatted down by even the crappiest of players, and Nakamura had one of the biggest choke plays I've ever seen. And even THAT play didn't seal the deal for the falcons. It took Josh Norman choking a few times after that too. You are seeing one thing happen and blaming it on another.

Not gonna argue this anymore because there really is no argument here.

[rayzor]

Captain Hindsight. So you're saying putting the ball at the opposing team's 1 yard line when they have no timeouts with 1 minute remaining is a bad decision? Listen, I'm all for aggressive play calling, but your'e hating on a good call, with TERRIBLE player execution. How about take into account that everyone knows Matt Ryan has a noodle for an arm, and threw the equivalent of a last second hail mary (which was a complete floater) into double coverage, that should have been swatted down by even the crappiest of players, and Nakamura had one of the biggest choke plays I've ever seen. And even THAT play didn't seal the deal for the falcons. It took Josh Norman choking a few times after that too. You are seeing one thing happen and blaming it on another.

Not gonna argue this anymore because there really is no argument here.

yes. i'm saying that now. i said it then. i say it every time i see it. it's a bad idea.

the terrible play execution had been happening all game. we were getting torched. we were going against one of the best passing offenses in the league and we were getting beat repeatedly. that was one thing you could absolutely count on.

the choke was the call rivera made in punting it. it was a bad situation to put your team in. the safer and smarter decision was keeping the ball in your offenses hands.

you're right...there is no argument there. it was a bad decision because the results should have been anticipated based on how the secondary had been.

that wasn't the only time that rivera had given away a game by giving the other team the ball and he's not the only coach that does it. fox is sitting at home this weekend because he did the same thing. mike smith was almost sitting at home because of the same thing and pete carroll is sitting at home because after his team rallied back to take the lead, they left the falcons too much time.

if the score is tight and there's time left on the clock, you have to anticipate the other team being able to come back. not anticipating it when it's so easy to do it is just dumb and coaches are going to keep getting bitten in the butt until they figure it out. when the game is on the line, you don't give the other team a chance to score. you either add to your score or keep the ball in your own hands.