The Kony Ealy Gambit

[rayzor]

Cody Latimer in the 4th, double up on OT's in the 2nd/3rd (Billy Turner/Joel Bitonio) BPA in the first.

what if those guys aren't there?

what if the bpa those rounds are something other than what we need?

[rayzor]

Which is why you need to draft them before you need them. Give them time to develop.

again, great idea if you don't have huge needs in other key areas right now. that's not our situation.

[The Lone Panther]

what if those guys aren't there?

what if the bpa those rounds are something other than what we need?

I'm saying we do BPA just in the first, then focus on our needs the rest of draft unless a big time player somehow falls onto our laps.  For example, if we're on the clock in the 4th round and someone like Kelcy Quarles is still on the board, we would be stupid not to take him. 

[iamhubby1]

Just brain-storming hypotheticals here with regard to the upcoming draft.

 

If a top-notch DE like Kony Ealy (and he's a damn beast) is available at our pick #28, considering the depth at the WR position and at the OT position in this draft (players like Davante Adams, Donte Moncrief, and Jordan Matthews might well be available to us in the 2nd/3rd rounds, as well as OTs like Antonio Richardson, Jack Mewhort, and Joel Bitonio likely available), would taking a guy like Ealy give us really, really good flexibility for our DE position?

 

Because we all know that, after this year, one or the other of Kraken or CJ are likely to be gone.

 

I want both an impact WR and OT in this draft as much as anybody (maybe more than anybody when it comes to the OT spot).  But if a true impact player like Ealy is sitting their and only the second tier 1st round grades at WR are available and only 2nd round grades at OT are available, wouldn't Ealy be a great choice considering how good of a player he is and the flexibility it provides us?

 

Discuss.

Pie for the intriguing sounding title. Sounds absolutely Ludlumian.

 

 

What you don't seem to understand is that if Gett reaches a deal with Hardy, that is likely the end of CJ's career in Charlotte after the 2014 season.

 

Or conversely, if Gett is NOT able to reach a deal with Hardy, then Hardy will also be allowed to walk after the 2014 season while we keep CJ.

 

After 2014 is done, we will have one or the other, not both.

Or...we get the long term deal done with teh Kraken this year. Next year we extend CJ 3 years and bring down his cap hit. Then we get to work on Cam. With the Cap going up, and more hurndog contracts by the wayside. We should be able to take care of CJ as well as Cam.

 

 

that's a fine and good approach when you have more pieces together on your roster than we have.

 

what do we do about areas of immediate need? sit and hope that maybe there hasn't been a run on good prospects that we were looking at and continue to take table scraps to fill needs?

To me. There are only 2 glaring needs. WR and LT. If we can get starting quality players for those 2 positions, we can compete.

Also. I am under the impression that we are in hope and a prayer territory this year. We are going to struggle. The extent of that struggle depends on how well Gman fills out the roster before the draft.

We are close. With some luck and great talent evaluation, we may just be okay. I know, may isn't the word you want to hear.

 

 

at some point you are going to have to take serious measures to fill serious needs and that might involve conceding a little on your BPA philosophy.

 

i'm saying he should fill out the roster with the best available players. then start building out from there. if the best available players to fill out your roster is in the draft, then you take them.

Couldn't say it better myself. If Gman has the roster pretty well filled out come draft time. Going BPA is SOP. Personally, I like BAA myself. Best Athlete Available. But that is for another thread.

 

 

i was being a bit facetious with that example, but still the line needs to be drawn somewhere.

 

imo, the priority needs to be this year. after this year is set, then start looking forward. when we have a full roster with good players in key areas, then we can play this looking ahead game.

 

i would have been ok with ealy had we let hardy go into FA, but even then i'd be pissed at another hole this year being created when we have so many and such a passive approach to filling those needs.

We absolutely do not want to take a step backward this year. Which is the main reason I think Gman is going to keep working on this roster. Especially on the Offensive side of the ball. Or at least that is what I am hoping for.

I hate having to play this many kids for the second year in a row. But, IF, some of them come out the other side better players. I can live with that. White and Lester, Pialres, Barner, Underwood, McNutt, and King. Lots of kids at 2 major spots. Lots of opportunity for showing out. Especially on Offense.

It worked well last year. Why not again this year?

[MHS831]

Which is why you need to draft them before you need them.  Give them time to develop. 

 

I agree. That was the point I was inferring. 

[Woodie]

i was being a bit facetious with that example, but still the line needs to be drawn somewhere.

 

imo, the priority needs to be this year. after this year is set, then start looking forward. when we have a full roster with good players in key areas, then we can play this looking ahead game.

 

i would have been ok with ealy had we let hardy go into FA, but even then i'd be pissed at another hole this year being created when we have so many and such a passive approach to filling those needs.

 

No, the priority has to be the long-term health of the team.  If that means sacrificing player at a position of need to make sure you are able to extend your core players and at the same time not weakening an area of strength, then that's what you do.

 

Believe me, I get what you are saying, and agree with the general premise that we have to fix the two areas that are clearly broken.  But looking at things long-term, we have to plan for what we want to do not only this year, but next, and the year after that and so on. 

 

So, lets say Gettleman has determined that there is no way to keep both Hardy and CJ after next season while still extending Cam and Luke, does DE not become a position of need?  Obviously it does, but just as obviously, it's not as immediate of a need as OT and WR are this year.  So, all things being equal (or even close to it), I have no doubt he will go with an OT/WR in the 1st and 2nd rounds.  However, following the OP's logic, if Gettleman does not see any of the WR's or OT's that are available at #28 as any higher values than late 2nd (I think he might be willing to slightly reach, but not a whole round), but does see a DE with clear 1st round value sitting there, it would make much more sense to take the DE at 28 and pick up a WR and OT with our 2nd and 3rd picks.

 

And with the depth at WR and OT in the draft, there will be quality at both positions probably into the 4th round.  So it's not like we have to make an either/or decision. 

 

 

[Kuech the Sneak]

The strategy in the first couple rounds might be BPA at positions of need like OT,WR,CB. Unless theres another player who falls and is too good to pass up

[Woodie]

Pie for the intriguing sounding title. Sounds absolutely Ludlumian.

 

 

Or...we get the long term deal done with teh Kraken this year. Next year we extend CJ 3 years and bring down his cap hit. Then we get to work on Cam. With the Cap going up, and more hurndog contracts by the wayside. We should be able to take care of CJ as well as Cam.

 

 

To me. There are only 2 glaring needs. WR and LT. If we can get starting quality players for those 2 positions, we can compete.

Also. I am under the impression that we are in hope and a prayer territory this year. We are going to struggle. The extent of that struggle depends on how well Gman fills out the roster before the draft.

We are close. With some luck and great talent evaluation, we may just be okay. I know, may isn't the word you want to hear.

 

 

Couldn't say it better myself. If Gman has the roster pretty well filled out come draft time. Going BPA is SOP. Personally, I like BAA myself. Best Athlete Available. But that is for another thread.

 

 

We absolutely do not want to take a step backward this year. Which is the main reason I think Gman is going to keep working on this roster. Especially on the Offensive side of the ball. Or at least that is what I am hoping for.

I hate having to play this many kids for the second year in a row. But, IF, some of them come out the other side better players. I can live with that. White and Lester, Pialres, Barner, Underwood, McNutt, and King. Lots of kids at 2 major spots. Lots of opportunity for showing out. Especially on Offense.

It worked well last year. Why not again this year?

 

That sound great in theory, but even if we give CJ an extension to bring down his 2015 cap hit, it will still be fairly high dollar with even more guaranteed money.  So, while we might be able to lessen the immediate hit, we probably couldn't bring it down any lower than 7-8 million from the current 16+ million (and I'm being generous).  But then that will significantly increases the cap hit in subsequent years which would impact our ability to keep the rest of the core guys that will need extensions in the near future.  So, to be honest, I really don't see any scenario in which we can extend Hardy for anything near what he will accept and keep CJ...at least without sacrificing someone like Luke, Star, or Short...and whomever we get in the 1st this year.  

 

 

 

[Panthers8969]

Obviously those holes need to be filled but waiting to cross that bridge is why those positions are in such bad shape. If the right value isn't there at 28 why take a lesser talent?

I agree waiting to fill positions is why those positions are in such bad shape. So your strategy is to keep putting off those positions, so other positions aren't neglected. It seems like you are contradicting yourself here.

[Panthers8969]

Isn't that what you are doing when you suggest Ealy will be a backup. Maybe he excels and takes over a starrting position.

Yes, yes it is. Your right. Excuse me for typing like it is a fact a rookie won't start over two pro bowl des. If we draft him(very unlikely) and he starts bc he is more talented(not bc of injury or anything like that) pm me and I'll give you $1,000.

[BlackCnqstdr]

I agree waiting to fill positions is why those positions are in such bad shape. So your strategy is to keep putting off those positions, so other positions aren't neglected. It seems like you are contradicting yourself here.

 

No not really, at no point did I say "don't fix WR and OT" I said if there are no players available at 28 that DG sees as 1st round talent then you take a player at another position.  If he sees for example jordan matthews as a late 2nd round early 3rd round player who will need time to develop into a starter how does drafting him in the 1st solve the problem at WR?  All it does is appease the fan base until the games start and everybody screams matthews is a bust. 

 

I'll ask again since no one who says take OT or WR regardless answered:

 

If DG thinks the only day one starters at OT are Robinson, Lewan and Matthews and he thinks the only 1st round WRs are Watkins, Evans, Cooks and Benjamin (just for example) and those guys are all gone who do you take?  You're saying he should draft a player just because of the position he plays even if he doesn't believe in that player.

[Panthers8969]

Are you sure you're ALL for BPA?

Hahaha. Yeah guess I'm not all for it

[Panthers8969]

No not really, at no point did I say "don't fix WR and OT" I said if there are no players available at 28 that DG sees as 1st round talent then you take a player at another position. If he sees for example jordan matthews as a late 2nd round early 3rd round player who will need time to develop into a starter how does drafting him in the 1st solve the problem at WR? All it does is appease the fan base until the games start and everybody screams matthews is a bust.

I'll ask again since no one who says take OT or WR regardless answered:

If DG thinks the only day one starters at OT are Robinson, Lewan and Matthews and he thinks the only 1st round WRs are Watkins, Evans, Cooks and Benjamin (just for example) and those guys are all gone who do you take? You're saying he should draft a player just because of the position he plays even if he doesn't believe in that player.

I never said you said that. I'm just saying neglecting wr yr after yr was a mistake and probably cost Smitty a spot in canton. And yes if all the first round talent is gone somehow(I don't see any scenario that would cause this so it's really mute point) then we should take the bpa instead of someone who we know will be there in the second.

[BlackCnqstdr]

I never said you said that. I'm just saying neglecting wr yr after yr was a mistake and probably cost Smitty a spot in canton. And yes if all the first round talent is gone somehow(I don't see any scenario that would cause this so it's really mute point) then we should take the bpa instead of someone who we know will be there in the second.

 

Not drafting those positions in the 1st round isn't the same as neglecting them.  The panthers didn't neglect wr year after year anyway, hurney just sucked at evaluating them lol

 

Of course you don't see any scenario where that happens because nobody here knows who the panthers consider 1st round talents and all we hear is how incredibly deep the draft is.