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Man you have dug in so hard on this I don't think you even know which way is up anymore. Knueppel is 19 years old. Nineteen. Bryce Young is going to be 24 years old in about a week and getting set to begin his 3rd season as a pro. Adam Thielen is going to be 35 yesrs old in August. Do I really need to stop and hold your hand and explain to you the striking difference between the players you're trying to draw situational parallels to because you're in your feelings about fans having expectations for Bryce Young? Get a grip bud......

You said that we forced production to Thielen. Why are you looking at receiving yards to confirm that rather than targets?

Dunking (HA!) aside, the team looks like they're going to be a lot of fun watching develop and challenge next season. I was really only excited about Kalkbrenner, but seeing KJ light it up, McNeeley surprise, Kon respond, and Tidjane's ascension... shoot... it was an easy choice to snag eight tickets for the preseason game vs. OKC down here in Charleston in October.

When AT has more targets than Mike fuging Evans and barely cracks 1k yards and we win 2 games and finish with the worst passing O in the league I think it's safe to say if the goal is increasing the win output the ball needs to be in someone else's hands. AT being the focal point in any capacity is not going to win games. That's simple reality.

Nothing is ever that simplistic. But he doesn't really get open. He can do anything with the ball in this hands really. He is a small TE at this stage and we tend to often make him too be of a focal point on Sunday which I have argued always makes life too easy on defenses and keep the ceiling of the O very low. Which is why "great" O play for us (our curve) only generates about 200 yards of O. I'd love AT if I was the Eagles or something. Where I trot him out randomly on a 3rd down and getting very limited work. Ricky Prohel.

I hope AT has a good year, and then hangs them up I also hope XL develops some hands

"Why is Kon so different from any draft pick we've trotted out over the years? You act like he's your brother in law. These are just conversations. It's not like any of us has any say. You're entitled to your opinion same as anyone else is entitled to theirs."

So wins are now a WR stat. The haters ball is in full swing.

Well said. Also, the agent is also not looking at this myopically. Its not just one contract but it is setting a precedent and more $$$ across the board said agent. Gotta believe there is a lot of added emphasis and motivation from that standpoint.

you post it shows 44, 43, 40, DNP, DNP in our wins on the season. 2023, he had 40 in a win. That's 6 of the 7. Math seems to be mathing. We have no wins with AT having "great" games. Outlier is the Hou game w/ 70 in 23 I just think AT is a double edged sword given where we are.

Certainly there can be value in veteran mentorship. I think that's more relevant and valuable on teams that already have an established culture and identity. This franchise just isn't that. And let's be realistic. The better and consistently competitive franchises aren't making older fringe washed up veterans a priority the way we are. It's not a personal slight on anyone. I think Thielen and Dalton are great guys. But this is a franchise that hasn't had a winning season heading into 8 years now. We aren't going to change that making mentors out of aging players other teams have virtually no interest in regardless of how much we may like them personally. Just an honest assessment.

His only two games where he was targeted more than 5 - 6 times was against Tampa and Philly. Both of those were incredibly close losses. Are you sure that your memory and/or assessment are both accurate here? The data doesn't match either.

which you can argue, has been actually a problem/flaw for Carolina. Generally speaking, if AT has a good game and we force production to him.......we haven't won. In the random games we have won, AT generally had 40 yards or didn't play. Which is true of 6 of our 7 wins. I still contend AT has taken up too much oxygen in this O. Too many reps and targets.

It is strange seeing the same Panthers fans that complained about Cam not getting enough help turn around and complain that Bryce has received too much help. All because they drafted a WR high in back-to-back seasons, retained a mentor QB as a back-up, and signed a veteran target just like they did for Cam? Weird...

Judkins deff aint getting fully guaranteed soooo

These are just ripples of a move to redo the rookie deal schedule for second rounders and beyond. These kids coming out of college with NILs are even more money savvy than those before them and they've been working with agents for longer. And agents will always try to sweeten the deal for their clients, and therefore, themselves.

Haven't heard a thing so far.

Second round picks should never get fully guaranteed contracts. They are not worth the risk.

3rd should be probably half guaranteed. The failure rate is too high for full guarantee at that point in the draft.

I don't particularly see Canales as someone that develops QBs that dropped into the late rounds, which is what you want as a backup. Not saying he can't, we've just never seen it. He's more of a bring a soon to be bust guy back from the dead kind of coach. In Seattle, he did nothing with Wilson, but got Geno playing up to his #39 pick potential, when everyone had him slated as a perennial back up. In Tampa he semi-resurrected Mayfield, who had played his ass off in LA after we traded him. He was brought here to make sure that Bryce didn't immediately wash out after we bet the farm to trade up for him, And let's face it, that's the direction Bryce was heading.

lmao you sound like me, I noticed the same a few weeks ago. I watch to see him hand catch like a hawk, but not like a lot of these fans hoping he fails, I want to see him improve. That was a trait I immediately noticed about Tetairoa after we drafted him, pure hands. Didn't surprise me when he said one of the guys he emulates is Larry Fitzgerald.

I said in the Shemar Stewart thread that I thought it was a good trade off, First round picks get fully guaranteed contracts and teams get the 5th year option. That's just fair! Maybe a sliding scale could work to avoid this type of shenanigans, 2nd round 90% guaranteed, 3rd round 80%... just my off season ramblings.

The Panthers begged him to come back so Bryce can have his security blanket once again. Without AT this season, Bryce may have regressed. The young WRs may be the chunk yardage or 'shot' guys, but AT will the the 3rd down (4th down) chain mover. If there is a must have play, Bryce won't be looking for the young guys, he's looking for AT.

If your #1 overall pick needs a vet to help him going into year 3 then we have problems. And this was discussed when Dalton resigned, in a nutshell this is a bit unprecedented