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beat me to it

No I would not. We have tried the street FA many times and all it does is delay the inevitable. They should have brought someone in in the offseason and they didn't. You will suffer along with the rest of us.

Is "Turnover Fred" Bryce's new nickname? Not bad, but we can do better. (PS don't edit the thread title and ruin my post)

Turnover Fred, meet Tommy Jone

We can’t put him back in the womb.

Yeah but Jamis is good for air-raiding Ds for 2 or 3 games between the 5 int games. You honestly wouldnt take that over what we put on the field yesterday?

This is what Bryce is in the NFL. You will see a glimpse here and there. But he can no longer hide from his abilities anymore. Above average through high school and college equates to middling or below average in the NFL. Then you factor in his limits due to his size, being thrown into a garbage franchise with a turn-style at the head coach and coordinator spots. It results in the Bryce you now have. had he been allowed to develop under the right conditions it’s possible Bryce turns it around, and still may. But just not in a panthers uniform. You need all world talent to win in charlotte under the current circumstances even a second coming of Cam newton would still be sub-500 with the occasional blow up seasons if there is continuity on the roster and staff. it is what it is man. No hope left here in charlotte currently

Still talking about college. Godalmighty

You should have kept that to yourself. We have enough turnover machines on the roster already.

Ejero next job going to be arena league. They all play his style of defense there anyway.

More concerning is the Panthers have been down by 17+ (3 possessions) at half in 7 of Canales 21 games as HC. In fully one third of the games Canales has coached, the team has been DOA.

I dont think Dave even has the locker room as a leader. I cant believe any other NFL coach is looking at the way Bryce has performed and says that's my guy come hell or high water. Tepper is making that call and players know it. Tepper is controlling the locker room. Dave is a figurehead.

Words I never thought Id type Put Jamis Winston in a Panthers uniform

That's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying to not draft a QB next year. I'm saying that if you're Canales and Morgan first thing's first, you gotta GET to next year. I think they're gonna have to do something to make a move for a bandaid QB approach if they're gonna make it to next year.

The size thing is only the half of it. The arm talent issue is every bit as limiting as the size issue. Honestly, outside of having decent mobility Bryce is significantly subpar in every other physical talent category.

From The observer Excerpts In Panthers’ loss to Patriots, Bryce Young needed to be more than turnover-free Alex Zietlow [email protected] 5 hrs ago No fumbles for defensive touchdowns. No drive-ending, momentum-stunting, scratch-your-head interceptions. No spiked iPads or fiery exchanges with his head coach. None of this from Bryce Young. Instead, there was a deep shot on fourth-and-5 to rookie receiver Tetairoa McMillan that never had a chance. There were handoffs on third-and-longs. There were moments when pass protections broke down, and Young, instead of dazzling like he so often did in college and in spurts as a pro, answered to the pressure by dirting the ball away from harm. There were surrenders. sic Young needed to be more than turnover free He wasnt Young finished Sunday 18-of-30 for 150 yards and one touchdown. He was sacked once for 11 yards and ended his day with an 84 passer rating. He’s now 1-15 for his career on the road. That’s the worst through 16 road contests since Dan Pastorini reached that mark with the Houston Oilers from 1971-73. …against a vulnerable Patriots pass defense, different. Young needed to be more than turnover-free. He needed to be special. There are kernels of truth in all this (the excuses for Young). But the prevailing truth that the Panthers found out is that there is a difference between mistake-free football and turnover-free football. Both require accuracy and sound decision-making, but the former not only leaves room for magic but requires it: 1 of squeaking away from sacks, 2 of giving your receivers the room and space to be special, 3 of Steph Curry look-away passes and smiling after taking nasty hits — plays of which Young has proven capable of making. But Sunday wasn’t that. Sunday was merely turnover-free — and, simply, not enough.

You could always sit the rookie a portion of the season or all of it. The Giants sat Dart a quarter of the season, the Chiefs sat Mahommes for a while. Just getting a vet doesn't preclude you from draft a rookie QB. Actually, it's the smart way to go. At #1 overall, it's tough not to roll the dude out there game 1. Outside of the top 5? You have reason to justify not throwing the rookie to the wolves.

No. Its too late to bring in someone to learn the system and have them start right away. DC and Dan made their bed so it is what it is.

I'm back and forth on starting over again. On one hand, what has Dave showed you? The offense isn't anything special. He's not putting his players in position to win. He may have done that when Bryce came back last year, but he's not this year. That's unacceptable coaching. On the other, what is Dave holding back? While we can talk about effort and fight, the players aren't turning on each other (yet). They are fiesty and giving effort. Dave also has Bryce forced upon him, and he's tried. At the same time, Bryce has not been as billed. Would things work better with a more aggressive minded QB? Everything sucks on this team - time to pour baby out with the bathwater and try again. How much more time is this going cost? Is there a redeeming quality about this team that a new coach could come in and build up next year? Who will want to come to the most temperamental owner in the NFL? I can't wait to hear about the meeting of the Daves. I think Canales needs to get this team playing well. No more BS with fundamentals. Get them executing plays on the field. Show me a team that makes plays instead of giving them up. I don't expect 12 wins the rest of the year, but show me some life.

The offensive or defensive minded HC is like the 3-4 or 4-3 argument. Both approaches have proven to work and both approaches have failed miserably when poorly implemented. I do think Tepper leans heavily offense though and given the NFL's push toward rule changes that favor the offense that's the way I personally lean too. I just think the NFL is going to keep tweaking the rules to try to encourage more offense because that's what drives viewership so if that's the case I do think all else being equal you're better off with an offensive minded focus.

Not an entirely fair comparison. Over the past 3 decades, rules have been changed to heavily favor offenses and to increase scoring. But the past 3 years have been blowouts.

Yeah I dont think we beat cowgirls at home. They might be worse beating then last year if bryce starts.

My other reaction is ‘but but he is a defensive minded guy’. Which I prefer anyway. I was not in favor of a single aspect of this migration to an offense focused organization. Or barely a single aspect. Dan Campbell seems an exception, he is pretty hard nosed.