gmonjimbo

Thielen isn't open on that play. That backside corner would have been there and then there is a safety on the opposite end that he would be in on the play as well.

Agreed. I think there was a snippet yesterday that Panthers on first down run are averaging 1.9 yards per carry. They run the ball too much on first down and when they do, it's practically second and long and a tell to defense that they are going to pass.

That's not true. They allowed 0 sacks to a team who has TJ Watt on the opposite side and rushed for 139 yards

At least 4 or 5 on the top of my head were beyond 10 yards. The gameplan called for several screens due to the amount of blitzing the Vikings would do

He flashed on a few plays. 2nd and goal 1:36 He flashed on a few plays. 2nd and goal. 1:40 remaining in 1st qtr throws a back shoulder to Ian Thomas that would be a TD but Thomas allows the pass to bounce off his shoulder pads. 3rd and 7. 3:17 remaining in 2nd qtr, extends play and rollouts of pocket to complete a pass to TMJ for 15+yards, play negated because of Bozeman hold 1sr and 10. With 34 seconds remaining in the 2nd qtr. Hits Thielen in stride. Then allow 20 seconds to run off instead of using a timeout 2nd and 11 with 9 minutes left in the 3rd quarter completes the pass to Marshall. This is the play that I don't Marshall caught but quickly goes up and completes a pass to Thielen right after for another first down. 3rd and 11 with 6:47 remaining in 3rd qtr. This is his best play of his 3 game starts. Eludes 2+ defenders in the pocket and completes it to Thielen. Quinn literally says "that is why he was the no.1 overall pick" After half he completed 16 straight passes. Listen I haven't been pleased that in each of his three starts, he's turned over the ball at the most inopportune times. However, I don't see much this team is doing in making his transition to the NFL easier - coaching or player wise. Some of the plays mentioned above where negated due to poor OL play, bad players (Ian Thomas), and poor clock management (coaching).

This right here. That's been the formula against the Panthers since Ted Ginn left and Cam's arm fell off. The offense inability to get chunk plays. It's very hard to have every scoring drive take 10+ plays, especially starting rookies and backups.

I think this is a good question to ask. I don't think he is that bad and if he was on another team, he would be playing much better. Even if you want to mention Andy Dalton, 8 false starts and the biggest play of the game was a 47 yard pass to Chark on a busted play with a starting running back averaging 2.9 yards per carry for the season. Of the 3 starting rookie QBs it actually would be Anthony Richardson that may still look remotely decent here because his ability to run adds an extra element that defenses would have to account for. He could overcome a porous OL and break out of would be sacks.

Agreed the first read is Thielen or TMJ, before he can move off the first read, Smith is there for the sack

This is where you have to look at all 22 to see what options were there. They knew that the Vikings blitzed a lot, so screen game was the counter. When they tried to hold onto the ball for longer developing players, that's where the sacks from Harrison Smith came from.

I want to give credit to Gross Matos. He's looked good this year and had the best game of his career. Burns disappears too much throughout games to command 30+ mil a year salary. I rather they save that money to build depth and find starters for the offense

I hear you. If this pattern continues after the bye, I'll start to be concerned about Bryce's long-term outlook. My biggest concern is the cluster of mistakes from the offense in general. For example, the first Jessie Bates INT, the play prior we have a delay of the game because Frank Reich can't get the play in on time. Putting them in 1st & 15 in an obvious passing situation. Before Young fumbled against the Saints, I believe Jonathan Mingo dropped a first down that would have been inside the red zone. Before today's fumble, Ickey committed an illegal man down the field that negated a first down by Shenault. This isn't to excuse Young's play. However, it's everyone on offense that is messing up. Last week with Dalton, 8 false starts. The Panther's biggest enemy right now is themselves. I see the difference that Evero is making on defense. What difference is Reich, McCown, Brown, and Caldwell doing?

Right now Bryce isn't making a difference. His turnovers have come at costly times or shifted the momentum of games. They had a chance to go up at least 16-7, but the game gets flipped on fumble six. Same way with the Saints game, fumbles after the defense turns Carr over inside the Saints' territory. I'll be fair and say that the players (Ickey, Ian Thomas, Zavala) and coaches haven't helped in making his transition to the NFL easier. I like that he got into rhythm at the end of the game, but he has to limit his mistakes because there isn't an easy button on this offense. Everything has to go well for this offense to score.

Yes Ickey makes too many mental. mistakes. 5 false starts last week. Now today, the play prior to the Bryce fumble, he gets illegal man down the field on a play that Shenault catches the ball for a first down.

I think they should resign to what Kenny Clark got from Green Bay 4 YRS/70 MIL. He doesn't get sacks like Quinnen Williams or Jeffrey Simmons but he's stout enough in run game and can collapse the pocket. I see him make tackles at the second level pursuing players.

No. Rather not trade any more picks. If they do trade for a WR should be either Jameson Williams or John Metchie, whom Bryce already has chemistry with from college.

For some reason when they draft a high-level player on offense (Cam, CMC) we go cheap in surrounding them with talent. I think the year prior they traded CMC they had Cam Erving at LT, Michael Jordan at LT, Paradis at C, and John Miller at RG. All out of the league 2 years later except Jordan who is on the Packers practice squad. I still believe in Bryce Young. However, my hope for Young is the Panthers do everything in their power to show whether he's the guy or not. For example, the Bears have done enough to give Fields a true evaluation, they got DJ Moore, they traded for Claypool, and they drafted and signed OL, yet he still doesn't look good, time to move on and use the draft picks you got from the Panthers to reset at QB. Every decision on trading, drafting, or signing players should be about Bryce Young and his development.

Let's see. There are about 4 separate threads on the first page re-upping posts from pre-draft workouts and scores to make sweeping judgments on players who haven't finished their first half of the season yet as rookies. I rather have people say, that my need to be right is more important than allowing the season to play out I don't think anyone would disagree that Bryce isn't playing well

I like your level-headed response. Pre-season the Panthers were considered the best landing spot for a rookie QB - QB coach that played 16 years, OC from McVay coaching tree, HC that played and was OC for a SB winning team However, on-field - eight false starts, 2.7 yards per carry, the longest play of the season is a 47-yard TD to Chark on a busted play. The biggest indictment so far is which young player on offense (still on rookie contract) looks better this year from Rhule regime. Ickey, Tremble, TMJ, Shenault, Chubba? The second half of the season will be telling - whether mistakes and self-inflected wounds are cleaned up

With Andy, I can concede the team could be 1-2. He doesn't throw 2 ints to Jessie Bates that lead to 10pts for Atlanta. However, I'm evaluating, 2 games against two top-ten scoring, passing, and total defenses in Atlanta and New Orleans versus one game against a bottom-three passing, scoring, and total defense in Seattle. I can't honestly say after watching yesterday's game say with the insertion of Andy, the OL played better, the running game improved, the playbook was wide open, and the receivers sans Thielen made significant contributions Until the 4 items above improve, I don't see putting in Dalton provides much benefit short and definitely not long-term for the outlook of the team.

- First, Andy under the circumstances played well. He remained poised and showed great leadership throughout the game - However, the overarching problems with the offense remain the same. - The first TD was a result of a busted coverage by a Seahawks defender. Besides Adam Thielen, no one on the perimeter consistently wins. - OL; 8+ false starts and less than 3 yards per carry. - As soon as Bryce is 100% healthy he should be out there, gaining more experience.

- watching JT breakdown and this one provides good context on Bryce and the offense in general - Some of the highs for Bryce are throwing several passes with anticipation before the receiver breaks on the route - the 15-yard completion to Mingo and the two passes to Thielen over the left hash, both were incomplete. However, it shows that he's not just waiting to see guys open before he throws - the lows are adjusting to the speed and disguised coverages of NFL defenses (Jessie Bates INTs). As he gains more experience he will realize what he can and cannot get away with. - Ultimately what I would like to see is a strong finish to the season. To me, that would be the indicator of a coaching staff that has enhanced their players' strengths and mitigated their weaknesses and a QB that has learned from his early season mistakes.

- give credit to the Saints defense, they stopped the run, covered well, and mixed up playcalling - If Thielen is still their best WR at the end of the year, the offense will continue to be painful to watch. He's not bad, but he won't generate anything beyond 5 to 15-yard gains. - Need to generate more space to scheme guys open. As JT said, the offense looks condensed like it's suffocating - Bryce has to speed up his internal clock, every position group is faster now, if it's not there throw it away or run.

Because you can better judge velocity when you're closer to the action than watching it from home.

Agreed. I was at the game in the lower level sections. He has no issues with arm strength or throwing into tight windows.

There is a thing called Adrenaline Brady Christensen finished out the first game with a bicep injury then was placed in season-ending IR the following day. Two Andy Dalton doesn't give them a better chance to win. He is even less mobile and hasn't looked good since AJ Green faded in Cincy due to injury. Today was a walkthrough, tomorrow is a practice session.