Instead of a foregone conclusion there needs to be a rethinking.

[Mr. Scot]

And for the record, it wasn't a forgone conclusion that he was gonna be here next year anyway.  One writer in fact (Voth, I think) hinted that Hardy's big money expectations had already written him out of the Panthers plans even before all the garbage happened.

[WOW!!]

Didn't you tell us that Godfrey starting would make the defense better?

At SS not at nickle back. And what I said exactly is he better then Harper. Again this was thinking we would have our top 5 elite pass rushers to make the secondary job easier. Which we don't have.

[CRA]

With Hardy he is worth bargain basement secondary. Without Hardy we need to pay a better secondary. You are going to have to spend the money regardless.

And you keep saying could be. Kk and Star could be this or that. By the way when it comes time to sign them the RB'S and dead money will be off the books anyway. But the point is "could be" and are right now is 2 different things. Right Now Greg is the best player on the Dline and maybe on the whole defense. No question.

Luke impacts the D much more so than Hardy.

Hardy isn't the reason we have sucked. We have talent to stil be a top D. Mental mistakes and poor tackling isn't Hardy.

Yes, Hardy makes us better no doubt. Based in the type issues we have had on D. I think it is naive to think having Hardy and suddenly we are the 2013 D again

[WOW!!]

If Luke and TD misplay a couple of plays they routinely made last year ...our D would be much better this seaosn. It is those fluke plays that have made us look bad on D. The long runs have been the biggest killers this year. D has had opponents right where we want them.....then boom, we let someone run for 60 yards on 3rd and 7.

The point is they didn't always have to make those plays when Hardy was on the field. He also made the DT'S job eaiser from the attention he demanded. Which nobody on the Dline now does.

[FootballMaestro]

Our D took a major step forward once Luke was put at MLB. Hardy was here before that. CJ was here before that. How did our defense look with those 2 guys but without Luke? Not very good.

 

I agree with those thinking our less effective D this year is due to more than just the absence of Hardy. We saw some signs of problems in the preseason, and we saw signs of it the 2nd half of the Tampa game with Greg in the lineup.

 

If it's my money, there is no way I give out a big chunk of guaranteed cash to a guy that doesn't always show the best judgement. Perhaps with a contract that is essentially a series of one year deals like Revis had in Tampa, yeah maybe. But giving him $30 to $40 million in signing bonus up front, no way.

 

Fair Enough!!

 

Though we can argue, Hardy's grown, and become a better player the previous two seasons.

 

Yes, you can point to Luke's arrival. But we can also point to Hardy's absence (though I know you have reasons) why this year's defense is suffering. So it goes both ways. 

 

I just feel an argument can be made, Hardy may carry more impact.

[MrBubba]

 

I just hope we can get him for the last month of the season if he's not guilty.

 

After months not playing or practicing, he won't be worth squat the last month of the year.

[CPF4LIFE]

Going back and reading all those "Horton, Ealy, Addison will fill in great" post is pretty hilarious now.

[Mr. Scot]

At SS not at nickle back. And what I said exactly is he better then Harper. Again this was thinking we would have our top 5 elite pass rushers to make the secondary job easier. Which we don't have.

 

Yeah I'm sure he wouldn't have looked like he was completely lost and couldn't cover anybody if we'd have just changed his designation on the depth chart.  I mean heck, it's not like he practiced at corner through all of training camp.

 

(You do realize Godfrey played corner for his entire college career, right?)

 

As has been mentioned repeatedly, Godfrey was a liability in coverage even before he was hurt.  Now he's a big play waiting to happen, and the Bengal coaches knew it.  You can be sure once they see the game tape, every other coach we face will know it too.

 

Given that you're still trying to defend him after what we saw this past Sunday, you'll have to pardon me if I find your opinions a tad suspect.

[CRA]

The point is they didn't always have to make those plays when Hardy was on the field. He also made the DT'S job eaiser from the attention he demanded. Which nobody on the Dline now does.

They made those plays all seaosn in 2013. As much as people praise our DL.....our LB corp IMO made our D last season more than any other unit. Davis and Luke were comically good last season.

We made there life tougher with a weaker cast around on the back end of the D. It is costing us. Odds of them repeating what they did with a comparable cast was a huge gamble. They mask a lot....being asked to mask much more this year. Hardy doesn't have much to do with that.

We lost a dang good nickel CB and two good run play S. All that falls on our LBs this year and it shows.

That isn't a Hardy fix. If anything Hardy technically created it bc the money he got and forced down grades

[CPF4LIFE]

I think we have always paid for a larger core than we should. Our past "core" was basically a bunch of Hurney dudes.

Core going forward IMO should be considered Cam, Luke, Star/Short, Benji. Everyone else viewed as short term compliments.

 

LOL Cam and Luke are Hurney dudes.....

 

[WOW!!]

Luke impacts the D much more so than Hardy.

Hardy isn't the reason we have sucked. We have talent to stil be a top D. Mental mistakes and poor tackling isn't Hardy.

Yes, Hardy makes us better no doubt. Based in the type issues we have had on D. I think it is naive to think having Hardy and suddenly we are the 2013 D again

Hardy is a major reason. And you are fooling yourself thinking any other way.

[WOW!!]

They made those plays all seaosn in 2013. As much as people praise our DL.....our LB corp IMO made our D last season more than any other unit. Davis and Luke were comically good last season.

We made there life tougher with a weaker cast around on the back end of the D. It is costing us. Odds of them repeating what they did with a comparable cast was a huge gamble. They mask a lot....being asked to mask much more this year. Hardy doesn't have much to do with that.

We lost a dang good nickel CB and two good run play S. All that falls on our LBs this year and it shows.

That isn't a Hardy fix. If anything Hardy technically created it bc the money he got and forced down grades

Those Cb's and Safeties aren't doing poo on there new team. Stop it. Acting like Captain was a big lost. Hardy attention and big play making along with Luke and TD would fix this team.

You can't pay to have a great secondary, LB core and Dline. Something has to be short changed.

We and a lot of teams have proven Dline and front 7 can make a weak secondary better.

[WOW!!]

Yeah I'm sure he wouldn't have looked like he was completely lost and couldn't cover anybody if we'd have just changed his designation on the depth chart. I mean heck, it's not like he practiced at corner through all of training camp.

(You do realize Godfrey played corner for his entire college career, right?)

As has been mentioned repeatedly, Godfrey was a liability in coverage even before he was hurt. Now he's a big play waiting to happen, and the Bengal coaches knew it. You can be sure once they see the game tape, every other coach we face will know it too.

Given that you're still trying to defend him after what we saw this past Sunday, you'll have to pardon me if I find your opinions a tad suspect.

What has Harper looked like again???

[WOW!!]

Star saw more double teams than Hardy last year. Stop making excuses. Bringing Hardy back isn't going to make us a Top Three defense again.

Of course he did 1 plays on the inside all the time and one plays on the outside. Starr is at a position that gets double teamed more. But Hardy still played more and made more game winning plays.