RE: Anti-Cam Douchenozzles

[BuffaloBills62]

I still do not understand why you have to be a douche nozzle to be anti Cam Newton?  You can be anti Cam Newton without being a douche nozzle.  You can also be a douche nozzle and be pro Cam Newton.

 

I am one of those who think Newton has a long way to go to bring home the baby.  I am one those that question how much better he can be to become an elite QB.  I am someone who wonders if he will ever transcend from a top 15 QB to a top 5.  But, that has nothing to do with me being a douche nozzle.  I am a douche nozzle for many other various reasons.

 

Is it too much to think critically of Newton and not have it become a flame war?  Because, week after week there are more threads about Newton then anything else and some real discussion actually needs to occur.

[davos]

At this point I want Cam gone so that this whole debate can just end haha.  

 

I've always been supportive of the kid and it took a while to warm up to him but he's our franchise QB until otherwise.  

 

He's a slightly above-avg QB with insane athleticism surrounded by a terrible team and coaches.    

[MHS831]

Oh really? Name all the quarterbacks that literally had their entire WR core gutted heading into a contract year.

 

What did he lose?  They, as a group, averaged 10 catches a game.  The top WR had 740 yards.  Perhaps we keep production like that when it would have cost us $20m to do so?   Olsen was the man.  However, that group is performing much better with established qbs. 

[TheRed]

What did he lose?  They, as a group, averaged 10 catches a game.  The top WR had 740 yards.  Perhaps we keep production like that when it would have cost us $20m to do so?   Olsen was the man.  However, that group is performing much better with established qbs. 

 

What did he lose? How about his #1 and #2 WR, who are putting up some decent numbers elsewhere,

 

Also, Ginn was pretty helpful for him last year as well.

 

You mentioned other QB's have succeeded through the same adversity, I don't see any examples of similar scenarios in your post. Let's also not forget this happened in the same year where we decided to surround him with undrafted players on the OL after offseason surgery.

 

If you can think of a similar scenario under those circumstances, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise let's keep it in perspective here, our entire team has looked like ass for weeks. We need some new coaching philosphies, and a new OC, and at this point quite possibly a new head coach.

[TheRed]

Also, you don't replace "catches per game", you replace overall production, we desperately need some speed.

 

You sound like Ron Rivera. This is why we are basically dead last in YAC.

[PhillyB]

I understand bro. I still love you.

if it helps, I got my own call-out thread in the tinderbox by the same author. dude has emotional problems

[Dexterity]

You guys need to seriously figure out a way to stop comparing Cam to Rodgers, Manning, Brady and Brees.

He is no where near the leader that those guys are.

He is a gifted and rare athlete, who with good coaching, can become a very good QB. But he has a ton of development to go on every facet of being a QB before he is even mentioned in the same breath as those guys.

Cam should sexually assault a female and start cursing out and berating his teammates on the sidelines.

Then he'll be a true leader like that Peyton Manning fella!!!!

[MHS831]

What did he lose? How about his #1 and #2 WR, who are putting up some decent numbers elsewhere,

 

Also, Ginn was pretty helpful for him last year as well.

 

You mentioned other QB's have succeeded through the same adversity, I don't see any examples of similar scenarios in your post. Let's also not forget this happened in the same year where we decided to surround him with undrafted players on the OL after offseason surgery.

 

If you can think of a similar scenario under those circumstances, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise let's keep it in perspective here, our entire team has looked like ass for weeks. We need some new coaching philosphies, and a new OC, and at this point quite possibly a new head coach.

 

I agree with the last part.  I also agree that Cam's support system is a factor in analyzing his impact--I said it very clearly.  It is so bad that we do not know what we have in a qb.  I could not have made it more clear. 

 

Other QBs who have struggled through adversity---Luck, Rivers, Ben--I mentioned them.  None have had their WR corps removed, but they have had injuries leave them with nothing. I never said they had their entire WR corps leave and you are suggesting that is worse than any other conditions the others endured.  I am not claiming that gutting the WR corps was advantageous, but I am not claiming that it has been a disaster either.  He needs 200 yards per game to match last year's passing yardage production, and Cam did not play in week 1. Benjamin already has more yards than Smitty with 4 to play. Cotchery is actually on pace to break Lafell's total last year, and Brown/Bersin should come close to Ginn's numbers.  So what did we lose?  Gutting the roster is also called attrition and free agency--it was necessary due to contract demands and production vs. the money each would get to stay.  They are new to other systems and they are doing very well there. 

 

In 2013, The Colts finished 11-5 and won the division with a rookie WR (Hilton), a late-round TE (Fleener) and Heyward Bey for most of the season.  The OL has always been suspect, and the Running game stalled because the OL was suspect.  It was all Luck in his second season.   23 TDs, 9 INTs and a division title.  This year, he took the next step, and he is the leading QB in the NFL.  Nobody made excuses for Luck because they didn't have to.

 

Last year, when Gross was here, Wharton, Kalil-not a terrible line--probably average---when Smitty, Lafell, and Ginn were here--the gutted trio--the offense was ranked 25th.  This year it is ranked 21st.    We relied on the second-ranked defense to keep us in games until Cam got hot.  This year, the defense is ranked 17th.  The line?  Last year, when Cam was mobile, we were sacked 43 times.  This year, with 4 to play, 37.  So What is the difference that makes this season so different? 

 

Cam's numbers this year:

 

QB Cam Newton: 235 yards per game (21st), 13 TDs (tie-20th), 11 INTs (tie-5th most), 57.9 completion percentage (30th), 78.9 passer rating (29th), 47.7 Total QBR (24th).

 

Paint it however you want to, there is a reason Gettlemen is not throwing zeroes in a checkbook right now. 

[TheRed]

I agree with the last part.  I also agree that Cam's support system is a factor in analyzing his impact--I said it very clearly.  It is so bad that we do not know what we have in a qb.  I could not have made it more clear. 

 

Other QBs who have struggled through adversity---Luck, Rivers, Ben--I mentioned them.  None have had their WR corps removed, but they have had injuries leave them with nothing. I never said they had their entire WR corps leave and you are suggesting that is worse than any other conditions the others endured.  I am not claiming that gutting the WR corps was advantageous, but I am not claiming that it has been a disaster either.  He needs 200 yards per game to match last year's passing yardage production, and Cam did not play in week 1. Benjamin already has more yards than Smitty with 4 to play. Cotchery is actually on pace to break Lafell's total last year, and Brown/Bersin should come close to Ginn's numbers.  So what did we lose?  Gutting the roster is also called attrition and free agency--it was necessary due to contract demands and production vs. the money each would get to stay.  They are new to other systems and they are doing very well there. 

 

In 2013, The Colts finished 11-5 and won the division with a rookie WR (Hilton), a late-round TE (Fleener) and Heyward Bey for most of the season.  The OL has always been suspect, and the Running game stalled because the OL was suspect.  It was all Luck in his second season.   23 TDs, 9 INTs and a division title.  This year, he took the next step, and he is the leading QB in the NFL.  Nobody made excuses for Luck because they didn't have to.

 

Last year, when Gross was here, Wharton, Kalil-not a terrible line--probably average---when Smitty, Lafell, and Ginn were here--the gutted trio--the offense was ranked 25th.  This year it is ranked 21st.    We relied on the second-ranked defense to keep us in games until Cam got hot.  This year, the defense is ranked 17th.  The line?  Last year, when Cam was mobile, we were sacked 43 times.  This year, with 4 to play, 37.  So What is the difference that makes this season so different? 

 

Cam's numbers this year:

 

QB Cam Newton: 235 yards per game (21st), 13 TDs (tie-20th), 11 INTs (tie-5th most), 57.9 completion percentage (30th), 78.9 passer rating (29th), 47.7 Total QBR (24th).

 

Paint it however you want to, there is a reason Gettlemen is not throwing zeroes in a checkbook right now. 

 

One key difference between the situations with Luck, Ben, and Rivers right now compared to Cam? They have coaching staffs in place who are able to get the most out of their quarterbacks while also, important to note here, actually developing them as passers also.

 

Watching our offense this year, one thing sticks out to me over everything else. There is literally no room for error. Period. The Cam Newton we saw to start the season is the Cam Newton that our staff should be developing him into. I fear they are simply incapable of that.

 

You can't simply look at Newton's numbers and rankings from one season in a vaccum and just say "welp, I guess he sucks".

 

Based on his first 3 years, where he gradually improved statistically each season, common sense should tell you that one year where the whole team is struggling while he was given a makeshift OL, and an entirely new WR group while recovering from injuries is not the norm.

[Anybodyhome]

Why? After 3 years he was the best QB, statistically, in NFL History. The 2014 calendar year every possible thing that could have gone wrong, has. But his total resume and skill set are still equal to or superior than any 25 year old in the history of team sports.

 

Because individual statistics mean nothing in the NFL unless they translate to wins and losses. When fanatics (fans) begin naming all those exceptional QBs Cam continues to be compared with when it comes to individual stats, they seem to leave out a few things, like W-L records, playoff appearances, playoff wins and championships. 

 

At the end of the day I couldn't care less if Cam Newton completes 60% of his passes or throws less interceptions than John Elway did in his 4th year (hypothetical stat). I care about the team winning and getting to the post season.

 

So, if you're of the mindset that comparing Cam Newton's completion percentage to Drew Brees as a San Diego Charger is an accurate overall comparison of the two players, so be it. It means nothing unless you're winning and getting closer to the ultimate prize.

 

[Eazy-E]

I always thought you two were the same people. Just like a troll account or something.

[WOW!!]

The problem is actually the way you are framing my comments to support your position.I compared him to the top 25% of qbs in the NFL, not the GOAT. He barely fits in the top half of the NFL--hardly the GOATs, but my point is "Nobody knows," which is why all of the Cam supporters (I am a Cam hopeful), start listing reasons he is underperforming. Some call them excuses, but I think there is something to it. However, we are going to pay him, and they will attempt to build talent around him. Then Cam will show us how good he can be. It should be noted that others have succeeded through the same adversity that we are attributing to Cam's struggles. I hope it works.

But you give Gettelmen a pass for picking the crap Cam has to play with in another thread. .

[WOW!!]

Because individual statistics mean nothing in the NFL unless they translate to wins and losses. When fanatics (fans) begin naming all those exceptional QBs Cam continues to be compared with when it comes to individual stats, they seem to leave out a few things, like W-L records, playoff appearances, playoff wins and championships.

At the end of the day I couldn't care less if Cam Newton completes 60% of his passes or throws less interceptions than John Elway did in his 4th year (hypothetical stat). I care about the team winning and getting to the post season.

So, if you're of the mindset that comparing Cam Newton's completion percentage to Drew Brees as a San Diego Charger is an accurate overall comparison of the two players, so be it. It means nothing unless you're winning and getting closer to the ultimate prize.

Winning is a team stat not a individual one..

The ultimate TEAM sport means team not one player. .

[WOW!!]

One key difference between the situations with Luck, Ben, and Rivers right now compared to Cam? They have coaching staffs in place who are able to get the most out of their quarterbacks while also, important to note here, actually developing them as passers also.

Watching our offense this year, one thing sticks out to me over everything else. There is literally no room for error. Period. The Cam Newton we saw to start the season is the Cam Newton that our staff should be developing him into. I fear they are simply incapable of that.

You can't simply look at Newton's numbers and rankings from one season in a vaccum and just say "welp, I guess he sucks".

Based on his first 3 years, where he gradually improved statistically each season, common sense should tell you that one year where the whole team is struggling while he was given a makeshift OL, and an entirely new WR group while recovering from injuries is not the norm.

Great post Red.

It's incredibly short sighted not to see the margin of error for Cam is so thin. No QB in history put in this situation would succeed..... plain and simple