RE: Anti-Cam Douchenozzles

[Verge]

So...what then? Do you anti-Cam people want to cut him? Trade him? What exactly? After that, what do we do? Hope Anderson is better? Draft a rookie? Free agent? You cannot claim we will be a better team without him at all, it would just be silly. We draft Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota? Not better than Cam, and we will lose our talent while waiting for them to develop.

[CarolinaCoolin]

Derek Carr, a rookie for the 1-11 even larger dumpster fire Oakland Raiders has a higher completion percentage, 3 more TD, 1 less fumble, and the same number of interceptions on 77 more pass attempts. His WR are James Jones, Andre Homes and Vincent Brown and a TE far less capable than Olsen. His oline is def better than ours so on to the next comparison. A 74.4 rating.

Blake Bortles for the 2-10 Jaguars with two fewer starts, has a higher completion percentage, 9 TD, 15 interceptions, but two less fumbles. His rotating cast of injured WR include Cecil Shorts and two rookies, Allen Hurns and Marquise Lee, and a TE named Clay Harbor. Sacked 34 times, two less than Cam, with two fewer games played, how's his protection? A 72.2 rating

Compare Cam to Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning? um no.. Compare him to dumpster fire teams with rookie QB's and you'll find more tangible evidence that actually aligns with exactly what it looks like on the field. This isn't some goofie stat collection to support that Cam has been this bad, IMO the stats and eye test line up perfectly.

Cam has some of the blame this year. But to think him losing his line and not having a better receiving corps doesn't play a role in that is naive.

[TheRed]

I never said., ""Well, I guess he sucks." I said, "We do not know what we have in Cam  Newton."  The theory behind QBs who bust is they were drafted by bad teams.  However, some of the QBs I mentioned above immediately made their teams better.  Luck, after a year of Painter, turned tragedy into prosperity with the same basic players.  Rivers was drafted by a terrible team.  Numbers from one season do not make a QB, but they do not say, "Lets pay this guy elite money" either.  Cam has been good in spots, but how often has he had to take the team on his back and carry them for 4 quarters like the qbs above have had to do?  Even last year, when we were 12-4, the defense kept us in games until Cam and the offense figured it out.   So while I see tremendous talent in Cam, I have not seen enough to call him elite--nobody has.  Even in seasons previous to this one, he was never in the top 10--that is the top third of the league.  You don't pay second contracts of $120 on potential and gut feelings--or excuses.  You pay top dollar for proven performance.  That is my only point.  Not trashing Cam--just not crowning him either.

 

Oh spare me this "tragedy into prosperity" line like Andrew Luck inherited one of the worst NFL teams in the last several decades.

 

The Colts had plenty of talent in place, and they absolutely tanked the sh*t out of that season to secure the rights to draft Luck.

 

Another thing with the Colts, which I don't know why you keep leaving it out other than maybe it wouldn't fit in line with the agenda you are trying to push. Indianapolis immediately began to build around Luck in the very same draft that they acquired him in, and still continue to do so.

 

Compare that to Newton who didn't even get a competent WR to grow with via the draft until his 4th season.

 

Here are the starters we've managed to add offensively through the draft since Newton arrived:

 

Amini Silatolu, OG, 2012 - Out for the year with injuries last year, injured again this season, hasn't looked good when healthy.

 

Trai Turner, OG, 2014 - Rookie, has shown potential, but jury is still out. Also has dealt with injuries so far.

 

Kelvin Benjamin, WR, 2014 - Rookie, shows immense promise, but still a rookie, we are depending too heavily on him to carry the offense.

 

Now I can tell that you pretty clearly know enough about Luck to realize that if we were to post the drafted offensive starters for the Colts since he arrived that it wouldn't even be close to the Panthers. I didn't even bring up Luck here anyway, you keep going on and on about him.

[PanthersClinic]

Andrew Luck pads his win column playing the Jags, Titans, & Texans twice a year- just like Manning did. And just like Manning he will continue to get wiped out in the playoffs.

 

 

Yeah and Cam plays in the worst division in football. Next argument!

[CarolinaCoolin]

Study the 2011 Colts and get back to me. The 2011 Colts, with Reggie Wayne, were 2-14. In 2012 and 2013, the Colts won over 10 games and made the playoffs--they will this year. Each year, Luck has improved, despite being without Wayne for much of 2013. Indy is heading for another 10-win season this year. Luck is leading the league in several key QB categories.

His situation was pretty bad, and he turned it into an instant winner every year he has been there. If you want to go down memory lane, you will see similar stories out of the great ones. All overcame adversity of some type. Cam is not overcoming anything--he is regressing due to it. Even when he had a stellar defense and a better OL, he didn't score much more than the defense was allowing. He has flashed and promoted himself, but in the end, what has he actually done to help this team win games? That is not to say that he won't, but it is to say that he hasn't--regardless of the dozens of excuses people make for him. The bottom line is he has not been a top NFL QB. End of discussion.

The 2-14 colts would have recked the 2-14 panthers if the played. Luck with out a doubt walked on to a better team than cam. In 2010 the colts were playoff team. Luck also benefits from being in an organization who from day one decided they would build around him and get him the tools he needed to win. That also means putting him in the right system and getting competent coordinators. They went out and brought his college coordinator specially for him to succeed after the qb guru Bruce Arians was there his rookie year.

Cam hasn't had anywhere near the luxuries luck has had. Oh and aside from this year they pretty much posted the same stats.

[Newtcase]

Cam has some of the blame this year. But to think him losing his line and not having a better receiving corps doesn't play a role in that is naive.

 

I never made any declarations as to why Cam was playing bad, so there's really no need to make assumptions that I don't agree that blame can be shared or that I'm naive.  I happen to agree that WR, OL, coaching, confidence etc are all factors in the bad play.  

 

The only point my first post made was that Cam has it no worse than Carr and Bortles, yet isn't performing any better, and fairly worse in the case of Carr.  Cam has played bad, so bad in fact, that he is more comparable to the starting rookies for the Raiders and Jags than any other level of QB in the NFL.  It really bothers me knowing that a large percentage of the production that brings him up to the level of Bortles and Carr have mostly come in garbage time when the game was already lost.  That's really something to chew on.

[MHS831]

Andrew Luck pads his win column playing the Jags, Titans, & Texans twice a year- just like Manning did. And just like Manning he will continue to get wiped out in the playoffs.

Cam carried an entire shitty Auburn team on his back and wiped out the SEC and won a BCS title. He put up 4,900 Yd 35 TD as a rookie. That's what he has done when he had competent coaches. Now he's stuck with Mike freaking Shula and Ron play for the tie Rivera.

Judging Cam off what he's done with those clowns is like putting a 90-year-old woman behind the wheel of a Ferrari then critiquing the Ferrari and saying it sucks. Bring in a competent offensive mind and Cam will magically become unstoppable yet again.

 

So dragging down Andrew Luck for winning in a weak division (after the team was 2-14 before he arrived) defends Cam for losing in a weaker division after his team was 12-4 last year?  Come on. 

[WOW!!]

So dragging down Andrew Luck for winning in a weak division (after the team was 2-14 before he arrived) defends Cam for losing in a weaker division after his team was 12-4 last year? Come on.

The same team was a playoff team the year before and went in full tank mode the year before he got there. .. And like others have said that made a extreme effort to build around him. They even hired his college OC not to mention they had Bruce Arrians his rookie year who is a true offensive genius and QB guru...

[WOW!!]

Study the 2011 Colts and get back to me. The 2011 Colts, with Reggie Wayne, were 2-14. In 2012 and 2013, the Colts won over 10 games and made the playoffs--they will this year. Each year, Luck has improved, despite being without Wayne for much of 2013. Indy is heading for another 10-win season this year. Luck is leading the league in several key QB categories.

His situation was pretty bad, and he turned it into an instant winner every year he has been there. If you want to go down memory lane, you will see similar stories out of the great ones. All overcame adversity of some type. Cam is not overcoming anything--he is regressing due to it. Even when he had a stellar defense and a better OL, he didn't score much more than the defense was allowing. He has flashed and promoted himself, but in the end, what has he actually done to help this team win games? That is not to say that he won't, but it is to say that he hasn't--regardless of the dozens of excuses people make for him. The bottom line is he has not been a top NFL QB. End of discussion.

The team was a playoff team a year before they tanked we sucked 2 years in a row before Cam got here. Also you negated the effect of Bruce Airrans who is showing his coaching aptitude now with Zona..

[stirs]

At this point, I do not think Cam will ever be elite. I had hoped he would continue to progress but am not seeing it.   I worried when we were using the 1st overall pick on a QB who was beyond athletic, but had very little throwing tape to critique.  This league has been formed into a passing league to excite the fans with 40 point games from each team.

 

This alone makes the running QB a disadvantage overall.  Exciting as all get out on occasion, but your asset risks a lot with each "exciting" run.  Longevity is always an issue.

 

Even last year, when we were winning, Cam had an all pro LT, Steve Smith, incredible defense, and still struggled to produce a lot of points in many games.  His same bad mechanics and inaccuracy did not hurt us as bad last season.

 

The YAC on this team has as much or more to do with Cam not being able to hit a guy in stride.  If you have to draft a 6'5" receiver for the bigger target radius, you might be conceding the accuracy point.  Look at the 30 yd lob that Rogers threw last week against NE on several occasions.  He hit his guy in stride over and over.  Cam, in his 4th year, is not close.

 

Passing is and will be for the foreseeable future, the key to each QB, not running.  Yes, it is great to have a QB that can get the 3rd and 1, but better to have a guy who doesn't have to.

 

I would not count Cam as a franchise QB.  Can he develop into one?  Do we want to invest 5-6 more years by signing a mega deal?  I think the league knows this now and I would not see much in trade value for him at this point.  Not sure what I would do at this point, but hitching the wagon for the next 6 years to Cam is something I would not do.

[TheRed]

At this point, I do not think Cam will ever be elite. I had hoped he would continue to progress but am not seeing it.   I worried when we were using the 1st overall pick on a QB who was beyond athletic, but had very little throwing tape to critique.  This league has been formed into a passing league to excite the fans with 40 point games from each team.

 

This alone makes the running QB a disadvantage overall.  Exciting as all get out on occasion, but your asset risks a lot with each "exciting" run.  Longevity is always an issue.

 

Even last year, when we were winning, Cam had an all pro LT, Steve Smith, incredible defense, and still struggled to produce a lot of points in many games.  His same bad mechanics and inaccuracy did not hurt us as bad last season.

 

The YAC on this team has as much or more to do with Cam not being able to hit a guy in stride.  If you have to draft a 6'5" receiver for the bigger target radius, you might be conceding the accuracy point.  Look at the 30 yd lob that Rogers threw last week against NE on several occasions.  He hit his guy in stride over and over.  Cam, in his 4th year, is not close.

 

Passing is and will be for the foreseeable future, the key to each QB, not running.  Yes, it is great to have a QB that can get the 3rd and 1, but better to have a guy who doesn't have to.

 

I would not count Cam as a franchise QB.  Can he develop into one?  Do we want to invest 5-6 more years by signing a mega deal?  I think the league knows this now and I would not see much in trade value for him at this point.  Not sure what I would do at this point, but hitching the wagon for the next 6 years to Cam is something I would not do.

 

Yeah, everybody knows if there is one way to help elevate your QB to elite status, it's to gut his entire WR corps in the same offseason that he has ankle surgery. Oh, and for good measure, also field one of the worst offensive lines in the history of the franchise.

 

Hey Cam Newton, why aren't you elite this season!

 

Our whole team is struggling right now. There is a clear disconnect between the coaching staff and the players.

 

What is this about Newton not being able to hit a guy in stride? I guess I've been watching a different QB these last 4 years.

 

You've literally been saying all this since before he was even drafted. Your opinion has never changed. When he's done well and we were winning, you would either rarely post in the football section, or you would only pop up after a bad game. You're basically TonyN. Congrats.