Defense has an achilles heel...

[raleigh-panther]

The realities are (and anyone who watches or played football sees this):

1. Our DEs scare no team. There is no need to double cover any of them or even keep a RB in to chip them

2.  Allen over pursues or gets pushed to the side and they run in the space Allen used to occupy

3.  Our linebackers (including Luke) have looked a little lost out there, not staying In their gap coverage and when blitzing do not beat their man and tackles typically made are broken.

4.  The blitz packages are predictable and are picked up more than not

btw, where are all those blitz packages that were supposed to feature Shap Thompson?

5  you might also note that teams are attacking up the middle, right through the tackles and Luke

does it matter if it is a great QB or a Kirk Cousins, of course but the fact is, that is an excuse.

 Great teams stop the other team's strength and the worst thing I have heard Luke say was 'Drew Bree's happened'    The fact is that defense failed to get Brees off his spot.  You would never hear a Patriots ever.  say that because great teams and great coaches take the other teams strength away.

At this point in the season, the Panthers are where the Panthers are and it is up to these players to overcome the injuries and bruises they surely have and make plays.

Next year expect that Dline to be rebuilt  and as much as the offense needs (Khakil is t getting any younger and need an upgrade behind Stewart or a replaceme t for Stewart) an influx it's not going to happen.

 

 

 

[MadHatter]

11 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

The realities are (and anyone who watches or played football sees this):

1. Our DEs scare no team. There is no need to double cover any of them or even keep a RB in to chip them

2.  Allen over pursues or gets pushed to the side and they run in the space Allen used to occupy

3.  Our linebackers (including Luke) have looked a little lost out there, not staying In their gap coverage and when blitzing do not beat their man and tackles typically made are broken.

4.  The blitz packages are predictable and are picked up more than not

btw, where are all those blitz packages that were supposed to feature Shap Thompson?

5  you might also note that teams are attacking up the middle, right through the tackles and Luke

does it matter if it is a great QB or a Kirk Cousins, of course but the fact is, that is an excuse.

 Great teams stop the other team's strength and the worst thing I have heard Luke say was 'Drew Bree's happened'    The fact is that defense failed to get Brees off his spot.  You would never hear a Patriots ever.  say that because great teams and great coaches take the other teams strength away.

At this point in the season, the Panthers are where the Panthers are and it is up to these players to overcome the injuries and bruises they surely have and make plays.

Next year expect that Dline to be rebuilt  and as much as the offense needs (Khakil is t getting any younger and need an upgrade behind Stewart or a replaceme t for Stewart) an influx it's not going to happen.

 

 

 

So our DL does not scare anyone...out blitz package is predictable...and our lb's (2 of which are in the pro bowl) look lost at times.......

Yet we are tied for 4th in the league for sacks and Top 10 in all defensive categories.

So, your analysis and conclusions about our defense are completely wrong and laughable.

[raleigh-panther]

1 hour ago, MadHatter said:

So our DL does not scare anyone...out blitz package is predictable...and our lb's (2 of which are in the pro bowl) look lost at times.......

Yet we are tied for 4th in the league for sacks and Top 10 in all defensive categories.

So, your analysis and conclusions about our defense are completely wrong and laughable.

You are always so angry and anxious to be right always and if I'm not mistaken this is a forum for opinion and I know it's surprising to you that yours isn't the only one that matters 

..and it's Christmas Eve too

now laughable is someone who thought the Panthers would run over the Guants

thst was you, yes...was that because of our number 4 defense?

If you dont get that schemes have to change or teams pick up on things like blitz lanes and snap counts well then I guess your summation of statistics achieved against not great teams and suspect QBs works or we can hope for a miracle against the other playoff teams

merry Christmas

[Donald LaFell]

2 hours ago, MadHatter said:

So our DL does not scare anyone...out blitz package is predictable...and our lb's (2 of which are in the pro bowl) look lost at times.......

Yet we are tied for 4th in the league for sacks and Top 10 in all defensive categories.

So, your analysis and conclusions about our defense are completely wrong and laughable.

I'm somewhere in the middle on how I feel about the defense but I will say numbers are meaningless. 

The defense is trending downwards. It doesn't matter what big names they have or accolades they receive. Giving up well over 30+ points to anyone is atrocious. I can't see how the Cardinals, Seahawks, or the Vikings would look any worse than the Saints/Giants did with no front 4 pressure. 

Shootouts are fun but can't possibly be sustainable. I feel like the formula is working but it's almost like a person living paycheck to paycheck, as soon as an unexpected expense happens(offensive turnover, ST score) it could create big problems. You just have to hope you keep having good fortunes. 

I hope they turn it around but as of right now this is an offensive team.

[raleigh-panther]

31 minutes ago, Kuechly59 said:

Reading your drivel is incredibly difficult.

That's for the compliment. Merry Christmas

[AceMan]

Slot corner is our biggest weakness on defense. 

But, I'm more worried about our inconsistent pass rush. Delaire shouldn't be inactive and Ealy needs equal reps to CJ at LE

[raleigh-panther]

5 minutes ago, AceMan said:

Slot corner is our biggest weakness on defense. 

But, I'm more worried about our inconsistent pass rush. Delaire shouldn't be inactive and Ealy needs equal reps to CJ at LE

Yep

but let's keep playing Allen and CJ

this time of year, young legs 

[MadHatter]

1 hour ago, raleigh-panther said:

You are always so angry and anxious to be right always and if I'm not mistaken this is a forum for opinion and I know it's surprising to you that yours isn't the only one that matters 

..and it's Christmas Eve too

now laughable is someone who thought the Panthers would run over the Guants

thst was you, yes...was that because of our number 4 defense?

If you dont get that schemes have to change or teams pick up on things like blitz lanes and snap counts well then I guess your summation of statistics achieved against not great teams and suspect QBs works or we can hope for a miracle against the other playoff teams

merry Christmas

First, I am not angry.  As for being right, it is not my fault that I debunked your whole arguement with two actual facts and stats.

[cardiackat88.]

I felt like in the last game, we have started laying off the gas on defense after getting up 35-7.

What started the comeback was OBJs childish antics that started a long, scoring drive for the Giants.

At this point, we has also pumped the brakes on offense. Punting shortly after and fielding a tired defense. Once Tillman intercepted that goal line pass, and then we laid the ball on the ground, te defense was utterly exhausted.

[MadHatter]

Just now, cardiackat88. said:

I felt like in the last game, we have started laying off the gas on defense after getting up 35-7.

What started the comeback was OBJs childish antics that started a long, scoring drive for the Giants.

At this point, we has also pumped the brakes on offense. Punting shortly after and fielding a tired defense. Once Tillman intercepted that goal line pass, and then we laid the ball on the ground, te defense was utterly exhausted.

I think you are spot on.

[firstdayfan]

11 minutes ago, cardiackat88. said:

I felt like in the last game, we have started laying off the gas on defense after getting up 35-7.

What started the comeback was OBJs childish antics that started a long, scoring drive for the Giants.

At this point, we has also pumped the brakes on offense. Punting shortly after and fielding a tired defense. Once Tillman intercepted that goal line pass, and then we laid the ball on the ground, te defense was utterly exhausted.

I do agree with this point of view...the momentum in the game definitely changed with the OBJ hit.  It is completely conceivable that it rattled the defense.  100% agree.

What I don't necessarily agree with from what I've read is that the defense lost focus.  I could understand this if it had only happened this one time but we have given up big leads two other times this season.  Which was the point of my original post.  I wasn't just breaking down the NYG game but really what has happened in all of these games where the defense has looked vulnerable.  The bigger question is why the defense "lost" focus this week but not last week when they were blowing out the falcons?  I believe it was because Ryan is an average QB at best.  And when the coverage and pressure schemes changed and we had to rely on the front four, Ryan just couldn't get out of his own way.  I believe we did the same thing against both teams and one had a great QB and the other had an average QB.   And of course, we will be facing only great QBs in the playoffs. 

The other thing I don't agree with is that the field position or turnovers led to the comeback.  First off the blocked field goal led to zero points.  Maybe you could make the case that we didn't put them away on the field goal attempt but we are talking about the defense here.  3 out of the 4 touchdown drives from the end of the 3rd quarter on were 60+ yard drives.  A lot of people also have said that we shut down the Giants for nearly 3 full quarters but again this isn't entirely accurate.  As much as I hated Aikman saying it over and over, if OBJ catches that TD pass then the game may have been very different.  Several other drops ended drives and there was even one instance where Eli made an odd throw that hit the dirt with no one even close.  I wouldn't necessarily say the defense was shutting them down but instead that the Giants were pressing a little after that dropped TD.  Once they started hitting a groove the defense couldn't slow them down.

4 touchdown drives in a little over 1 quarter can't be chalked up to a lack of focus or 1 turnover that led to points.  I have stated that I think its because of the lack of a consistent pass rush.  And as I said we aren't just talking about the NYG game, but all three big time comebacks.  So you either think that this defense is vulnerable to certain schemes or situations because of a poor pass rush from the front four, or that they simply lost focus three different times this season resulting in multi-TD comebacks.

But I have definitely enjoyed the discussion and feel that mostly everyone has brought up great points and information, which is all you can ask for.

 

[pstall]

Lots of causation correlation going on.

There is a lack of rush when the d gets tired. This usually happens in the 4th to teas m with good to great weapons. The lead is so big that it's much like when a great pitcher is on the mound.  Subconsciously the team hits worse because they know a low amount of runs is needed. I think the same mindset happens with our Panthers def. The offense has been so good that in the back of thier minds they know they just need to not allow a comeback. 

I say be wary of having CJ and Allen in at the same time and get a good rotation going once all the d line guys are healthy.

Tillman being out then getting Finegan then Bene getting hurt has caused some timing and chemistry adjustments. That will get better and game shape will improve for tjothose two.

I said this earlier but in the 4th if the d can get at least 1 or 2 three and outs and the offense can have at least 1 4,5 or 6 min drive then we are gold

 

The other tweak needs to be quick 3 and outs when we have the ball and are holding a lead late. They need to have the ball at least 90 seconds or 2 mins instead of super fast plays and punt and it was under a min. That happens too much for my liking

 

[cardiackat88.]

2 hours ago, firstdayfan said:

I do agree with this point of view...the momentum in the game definitely changed with the OBJ hit.  It is completely conceivable that it rattled the defense.  100% agree.

What I don't necessarily agree with from what I've read is that the defense lost focus.  I could understand this if it had only happened this one time but we have given up big leads two other times this season.  Which was the point of my original post.  I wasn't just breaking down the NYG game but really what has happened in all of these games where the defense has looked vulnerable.  The bigger question is why the defense "lost" focus this week but not last week when they were blowing out the falcons?  I believe it was because Ryan is an average QB at best.  And when the coverage and pressure schemes changed and we had to rely on the front four, Ryan just couldn't get out of his own way.  I believe we did the same thing against both teams and one had a great QB and the other had an average QB.   And of course, we will be facing only great QBs in the playoffs. 

The other thing I don't agree with is that the field position or turnovers led to the comeback.  First off the blocked field goal led to zero points.  Maybe you could make the case that we didn't put them away on the field goal attempt but we are talking about the defense here.  3 out of the 4 touchdown drives from the end of the 3rd quarter on were 60+ yard drives.  A lot of people also have said that we shut down the Giants for nearly 3 full quarters but again this isn't entirely accurate.  As much as I hated Aikman saying it over and over, if OBJ catches that TD pass then the game may have been very different.  Several other drops ended drives and there was even one instance where Eli made an odd throw that hit the dirt with no one even close.  I wouldn't necessarily say the defense was shutting them down but instead that the Giants were pressing a little after that dropped TD.  Once they started hitting a groove the defense couldn't slow them down.

4 touchdown drives in a little over 1 quarter can't be chalked up to a lack of focus or 1 turnover that led to points.  I have stated that I think its because of the lack of a consistent pass rush.  And as I said we aren't just talking about the NYG game, but all three big time comebacks.  So you either think that this defense is vulnerable to certain schemes or situations because of a poor pass rush from the front four, or that they simply lost focus three different times this season resulting in multi-TD comebacks.

But I have definitely enjoyed the discussion and feel that mostly everyone has brought up great points and information, which is all you can ask for.

 

Right, but I don't think it was a focus issue. The defense spent A LOT of time on the field. I felt like Tillman dug that interception out of tired desperation for a break, then there was the fumble, back out on the field they went!

[Davidson Deac II]

2 hours ago, pstall said:

Lots of causation correlation going on.

There is a lack of rush when the d gets tired. This usually happens in the 4th to teas m with good to great weapons. The lead is so big that it's much like when a great pitcher is on the mound.  Subconsciously the team hits worse because they know a low amount of runs is needed. I think the same mindset happens with our Panthers def. The offense has been so good that in the back of thier minds they know they just need to not allow a comeback. 

I say be wary of having CJ and Allen in at the same time and get a good rotation going once all the d line guys are healthy.

Tillman being out then getting Finegan then Bene getting hurt has caused some timing and chemistry adjustments. That will get better and game shape will improve for tjothose two.

I said this earlier but in the 4th if the d can get at least 1 or 2 three and outs and the offense can have at least 1 4,5 or 6 min drive then we are gold

 

The other tweak needs to be quick 3 and outs when we have the ball and are holding a lead late. They need to have the ball at least 90 seconds or 2 mins instead of super fast plays and punt and it was under a min. That happens too much for my liking

 

I agree to an extent, although against the Giants, we didn't get much pressure tired or otherwise.  We did do a good job in the secondary for the first 2.5 qtrs or so.  But the reality is the Giants don't give up a lot of sacks.  They have a good oline when it comes to pass blocking and Eli is one of the best in the league at moving around in the pocket and getting the ball out fast.