2016 losses recap.(Shula haters you have some explaining to do)

[Hoenheim]

Yeah I will hate that Benji strip fumble against the Cheifs until the day I die. That was me at my angriest in any game of the whole season, besides the first ATL game when Julio ran roughshod over fuging everyone.

Makes it worse he's a big ass 6'5'' possession receiver with gigantic hands and muscles, and you get stripped like a punk in a critical late game scenario is almost unforgivable.

[panther4life]

I also find it ironic how so many of you will poo on the performance of every offensive player outside of the interior of our line, Cam,Olsen and Benjamin.

Example- Ted Ginn leaves in free agency.

Typical huddle reaction- Yessss! Now we don't have to deal with 10 dropped TD passes a year.

We sign Matt Kalil-  Pretty much a bust so far for a 4th over all pick. But many jump for joy because they realize our LT play can only get better not worse.

There was a thread on here where some guy on twitter broke down how horrible our receiver play was last year. Such as lacking ability to seperate or multiple dropped passes. Many unanimously agreed that our receiver play last year sucked from an execution stand point. 

The point is that lack of talent and getting riddled with injuries making it even worse, makes it very hard to solely place blame on Shula.

Nobody has ever said he can't be upgraded and especially not me. I just go against the grain in the sense that I'm willing to say hey it's not all his fault. Apparently Rivera agrees. 

Id argue Gettleman even thinks the same, otherwise he is a complete jackass for keeping Shula on board and ruining his teams chance to meet it's full potential. 

 

 

 

 

[heel31ok]

its called the whole body of work  the collective failure of a game and game plan...not one play that didn't win it for us...

[Darvinsun]

15 hours ago, panthers55 said:

It couldn't be the passing game sucks because our receivers are bottom five as a group, right?  Sure Cam bailed us out in 2015 with a pretty good line but played badly in 2016 due to a horrible beat up line. And no Wade didn't call him a dumbass, the comment was we did the exact same think in the Superbowl we did the rest of the season that netted us 15 wins and an offense that scored over 30 points a game. Gee I wonder why we didn't.make major adjustments? And Gettleman has never blamed the offense or said he wanted Shula gone. One beat writer speculated about it and suddenly it is fact. Some people will blame Shula for everything regardless of the facts to the contrary.

I do not blame him for everything but he is not a genius..He is being paid to create plays and put his players in the best position to score Tds and not settle for field goals ..Ron has much blame in this too.  If Dave gets Shula upgrades and we have the same results then you know whats up...My thing with Shula is that he must not know his players strengths and weaknesses because most plays I see I know they are not going anywhere because the player does not fit the play or the timing of the play is just wrong..He is a coordinator but he is off on the timing, and players that fit the scheme...Football is a game of match ups and if your skill positions are weak you have to be able to scheme around those or become creative..read option is not creative.

[top dawg]

Dude, game flow does mean something. You can't cherry pick a few plays and say Shula is doing his job. Many times, NFL games come down to the wire, and at that instant a bad play call blows (or at least lessens) your chance of victory. It's just not practical to judge an OC without looking at games in their totality.

[panthers55]

15 minutes ago, Darvinsun said:

I do not blame him for everything but he is not a genius..He is being paid to create plays and put his players in the best position to score Tds and not settle for field goals ..Ron has much blame in this too.  If Dave gets Shula upgrades and we have the same results then you know whats up...My thing with Shula is that he must not know his players strengths and weaknesses because most plays I see I know they are not going anywhere because the player does not fit the play or the timing of the play is just wrong..He is a coordinator but he is off on the timing, and players that fit the scheme...Football is a game of match ups and if your skill positions are weak you have to be able to scheme around those or become creative..read option is not creative.

I don't think anyone thinks he is a football genius and honestly he doesn't need to be. Football is a game of imitation. Look at what the good teams do and copy it and you are a genius too. I think he does know his players strengths and weaknesses but you can only scheme so much. Execution and physical ability have to be there as well. As has been said numerous times, Cam and by extension Shula have not always gotten the tools they need. Once they have it then the onus turns to them to use what they were given. That is why Gettleman has given him a pass I think. He knows a big part of the problem he shares as well. Which is why I think we will go heavier on the offensive side this year.

[Ricky Spanish]

12 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

I don't think Shula has much to do with the other teams scoring a ton of points on us. 21, 27, 22, 48, 17, 41, 20, 10, 20, 20, 35, 40, 16, 15, 33, 17.

We lost three of the games where opponents scored less than 20 points on us. You can blame the offense, and thereby the OC for that. We lost every one of the games where the opponents scored 30 points or more... and we gave up 3 games with scores of 40 points or more... that is a defense completely unable to stop the opposition.

Our defense last season played a lot like the Atlanta Falcons Super Bowl defense... lights out for the first half and completely gassed by the second half. Of course, we had some very key injuries and a secondary with training wheels, but Bill Belichick couldn't survive giving up 30+ points as regularly as we did.

You can make your case with a simple "dur hur Shula sucks" and let that stand. Morons have been doing it for a while now, but you can't put all the blame for losses on his shoulders and then look at the prior season and give him no credit at all for the 15-1 season.

There's more truth to the OP's post than most can understand.

Let's see how they do this year. There was a lot at play that hurt this team in 2016, not the least of which was the extended 2015 season and a very short offseason.

One of the reasons we gave up so many points was because the offense couldn't sustain drives and kill the clock/score points while we were ahead. Also, those scores are misleading due to ST/turnovers leading to points not allowed by our defense. 

The team as a whole looked like crap last year, but Shula has looked bad more often than not. My biggest gripe with him is his lack of flexibility. If everything is going to plan, he's unstoppable. Throw in one hiccup, and things fall apart, he just can't adjust to anything. That includes scheme, injury, or personnel. I mean the dude has Bersin running bubble screens when he subs in for some reason for god's sake. 

I'm not happy we kept him, but I understand it wasn't all his fault, but the dude's body of work is definitely on the crappier side of average. It's a make or break year for Shula AND Ron in my opinion. 

 

[panthers55]

10 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Dude, game flow does mean something. You can't cherry pick a few plays and say Shula is doing his job. Many times, NFL games come down to the wire, and at that instant a bad play call blows (or at least lessens) your chance of victory. It's just not practical to judge an OC without looking at games in their totality.

Conversely you can't look at a few plays and blame Shula for a bad play call especially when you don't know what was called, whether Cam actually picked that play or changed pieces of it  and whether it was executed properly. You have to really know what we called and then watch film to determine what was intended. Otherwise all you know is what did happen not what was called or supposed to happen.

[bobsfoodbasics]

the playbook is terrible and he hasn't changed it in years.

passing plays still require cam to hold the ball for far too long in the pocket. maybe they work with an average OL, but the panthers OL is well below average.

also his second half adjustments are non-existent.

imagine how many points this team would be score with even a semi-competent OC.

[top dawg]

15 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Conversely you can't look at a few plays and blame Shula for a bad play call especially when you don't know what was called, whether Cam actually picked that play or changed pieces of it  and whether it was executed properly. You have to really know what we called and then watch film to determine what was intended. Otherwise all you know is what did happen not what was called or supposed to happen.

I pretty much know a run play and a pass play when I see it. I can also pretty much tell when Cam is calling an audible. Regardless, I've seen a run called when we should pass, and a pass called when we should run, too many times. Seeing the RB run into a pile two straight times, setting us up for third and long, on several series in a row, is nauseating. 

 

[L-TownCat]

[panthers55]

55 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I pretty much know a run play and a pass play when I see it. I can also pretty much tell when Cam is calling an audible. Regardless, I've seen a run called when we should pass, and a pass called when we should run, too many times. Seeing the RB run into a pile two straight times, setting us up for third and long, on several series in a row, is nauseating. 

you know what happened not what was called or audibilized to. You don't know if the runner should have run straight ahead or if the play was supposed to go outside or in. Sometimes we block to the left and that is where he should run and other times it is a misdirection to send everyone left and then go right. Sometimes a guy will miss an assignment, sometimes block the wrong guy, fail to rub off and block the blitzing defender and so forth. Sometimes we run 2 or three times up the middle to set up a play later in the game.

Without knowing what the intent is all you know is the result but most times that is a mixture of what is called, audibles which are made and execution.  Most critics ultimately assume the problem is what was called and overwhelmingly it is mostly due to how it was executed. For example ideally, when you block on the line, the defender shouldn't easily be able to know if we are running or passing. But most times when we run, blockers take a step forward and when we pass block they immediate start back pedaling. That is an execution problem not a play calling issue when defenders know what we are going to do by how we take our first step.

[PandaPancake]

Quote

Shula haters you have some explaining to do

No, I don't. Thanks for playing.

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, bobsfoodbasics said:

the playbook is terrible and he hasn't changed it in years.

passing plays still require cam to hold the ball for far too long in the pocket. maybe they work with an average OL, but the panthers OL is well below average.

also his second half adjustments are non-existent.

imagine how many points this team would be score with even a semi-competent OC.

Have you seen a playbook and were you there when they installed the gameplan for each game?

If not you don't have a clue as if you would know what a good play versus a bad play was anyway. Like the whole Cam is required to hold the ball.  That is plain stupidity. Who calls the routes and adjusts to what the defense is doing? Cam. Who if the defense is blitzing needs to change the play to something else.? Cam. If they come on a delayed blitzes, who is supposed to break off the route and be ready for a quick pass? The receiver. Who is supposed to read that and dump it off? Yeah, Cam. 

This is his offense to run. Most times he is responsible for what happens for the last 15 seconds pre snap and afterwards when the mike to his helmet is turned off.