Has Newton been David Carr'd?

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're the second or third person to say this, so I'll throw this question out to the general population.

Is Cam Newton an effective quarterback as a pocket passer only?

Thus far, hell no. He hasn't shown that he has the discipline that it takes to master the position. 

I've been a Cam supporter for years, always saying, "If he works on [this] and if he masters [that], then he can be one of the best ever," but I'm tired of excuses. Just like you see me, probably the quintessential Rivera guy as late as the start of this season, demanding more accountability from the HC, now you see me putting Cam in the same boat. 

At this point, I really don't care who likes it or not, I said numerous times that G-man, Rivera, Shula and Cam had to make some changes for us to get where we need to be. Well, G-man is gone (although his decisions are still being felt), and I still see mostly the same poo out of Rivera and Shula. Cam is actually retrogressing, so....

They still have an opportunity to right the ship, but I've got my lifejacket on.

[gmonjimbo]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're the second or third person to say this, so I'll throw this question out to the general population.

If he's healthy, is Cam Newton an effective quarterback as a pocket passer only?

He showed good traits in the past. I don't think that can be fully answered until they get a new coaching staff to build him back up. If he doesn't improve with the new staff, it's over. 

[Mr. Scot]

14 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

So the next question is... with Olsen and Ryan Kalil down, Cam clearly not being healthy and isn't going to be getting any healthier playing Sundays, do you cut your losses this year for the sake of Cam's future and rest him?

If the season plays out that way, then chances are the injury excuse saves everybody's jobs.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, gmonjimbo said:

He showed good traits in the past. I don't think that can be fully answered until they get a new coaching staff to build him back up. If he doesn't improve with the new staff, it's over. 

I'm not holding my breath on us getting a new coaching staff...or GM for that matter.

[brandon_87]

48 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

 

We really should address this issue.  Since Cam entered the league, he has been hit on 1 out of 7.4 pass attempts.  The league average is 1 out of 6.8 pass attempts.  He is not getting hit more than other QBs on average.  If anything, his protection has been a little better than average.

Where Cam has suffered is with the hits he takes running.  He ran a lot up until now.  I believe the hits he took as a "running back", especially the head shots, are causing the additional damage.  It was that dual threat ability that made him special.  As a pocket passer - he's average at best. 

Didn't say he gets hit every play, but he sees a lot of pressure on almost every play and when you have no faith in your oline, you start getting too anxious on throws and rush them. Our piss poor OC fails to realize Cam doesn't have the time it takes for these long developing routes to open up. Now... Cam, being in a rush to get rid of the ball instead of taking a sack that he thinks is coming because his clock is all fuged up now, tries to get rid of the ball to routes that aren't open yet, or uses his outlet TE that never seems to have a elaborate route to run. 

 

All I'm saying is, it's not the hits or sacks that have fuged him up, but he is fuged up now. Weather or not it's fixable remains to be seen, but being as he was never a solid passer to begin with, I doubt it will get any better.

[Borat]

http://deadspin.com/bad-quarterback-performance-of-the-week-cam-newtons-wo-1818809354Insert other media

[TheRed]

Cam is Cam. He's a warrior. He will be fine if we can protect him.

This logic of blaming Cam because our franchise has failed to find a permanent solution at LT the last 6 years is pathetic. But of course this is the Panthers fanbase we're talking about.

[falconidae]

28 minutes ago, Farachlombardi said:

Sir, you need to stop with your negativity your killing the positive vibes so refrain from posting anything negative , thanks. 

-Farach Lombardi 

If the negative vibes from a message board  are affecting Cam, he's got a serious problem. They aren't, and while he has problems, that's not one of them.

 

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're the second or third person to say this, so I'll throw this question out to the general population.

If he's healthy, is Cam Newton an effective quarterback as a pocket passer only?

Yes, he can be.

There were some asking the same question about Ryan[ has he gotten Carred, or as I say Harringtoned?]. From 2012 to 2016 , Ryan's Oline changed over entirely 3 times and he was getting more and more antsy in the pocket. Not as bad as Cam, but he wasn't hurt as bad and had a different offense.

Then they changed offenses in 2015, with a center who couldn't call protections, much less snap the ball cleanly on a regular basis. There were lots of folks calling for Schaub to start in the 2016 preseason-those folks were idiots-but Ryan hadn't looked good for a while.

Then, they signed Mack, Ryan & his teammates learned the new offense and he became MVP, took his team to the Super bowl.

So, yeah, if his Oline gives him time, Cam can be an effective pocket passer. I think M Kalil was a horrible signing and that Cam will never be healthy this season behind that line.

Get him a decent Oline, he can be the mobile QB who learns to be a pocket passer that runs occasionally. Got the skill position players to have a nice offense. Grab a couple of tackles next off season and a new OC- don't think it's all Shula's fault, but think it's time for a change.

 

[PantherPhann89]

As long as he holds onto the ball I'd so no. I think that he's playing the way there are telling him to play. Meaning they are telling him who they want to get the ball so when he drops back, thats who he's looking onto.

[parker]

1 hour ago, thennek said:

Cam has never been a great pocket passer yet because of age, hits, injuries and etc he is being forced to be a pocket passer.  I just don't think he's having any fun anymore. 

This is my thought exactly.  I think he is holding the ball too long because they are trying to get him to do stuff he isn't good at.  At times he looks confused and frustrated.  I understand that you don't want him to be injured as a runner, but use his strengths.  I honestly think he's safer running that ball than sitting back their with this Oline.

[CRA]

I'll take the stance I have taken for some time when everyone wants to start talking about Cam.

yes, Cam is recovering from a shoulder injury.  Outside of that....Cam Newton is NOT the problem.  The problem is the fact we don't put complete teams around him consistently.  Poor OL play has been the standard for his career.....and incomplete WR corps have been a steady issue as well.   When you don't provide that for a QB, the results aren't good. 

[grimesgoat]

47 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Cam is Cam. He's a warrior. He will be fine if we can protect him.

This logic of blaming Cam because our franchise has failed to find a permanent solution at LT the last 6 years is pathetic. But of course this is the Panthers fanbase we're talking about.

With all due respect, what evidence do you have that Cam will be fine if we can protect him?  He has never been a very accurate passer, even when given plenty of time.

His entire career has been built on being a dual threat passer/runner.  Now it seems he must learn a new way.  The only way "he will be fine" is if he can make quicker reads and becomes more accurate.   

I think the only legitimate beef people have with Cam has to do with his footwork.  This clearly has not been a priority for him.  I don't buy that no one ever tried to help him with this.

[grimesgoat]

22 minutes ago, CRA said:

I'll take the stance I have taken for some time when everyone wants to start talking about Cam.

yes, Cam is recovering from a shoulder injury.  Outside of that....Cam Newton is NOT the problem.  The problem is the fact we don't put complete teams around him consistently.  Poor OL play has been the standard for his career.....and incomplete WR corps have been a steady issue as well.   When you don't provide that for a QB, the results aren't good. 

I'm not sure line play is the answer.  The line has allowed him to crank out 3600 yards and 48 TDs in only 6 years, while allowing fewer hits per pass attempt than most.  We may need to keep looking.

[TheRed]

10 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

With all due respect, what evidence do you have that Cam will be fine if we can protect him?  He has never been a very accurate passer, even when given plenty of time.

His entire career has been built on being a dual threat passer/runner.  Now it seems he must learn a new way.  The only way "he will be fine" is if he can make quicker reads and becomes more accurate.   

I think the only legitimate beef people have with Cam has to do with his footwork.  This clearly has not been a priority for him.  I don't buy that no one ever tried to help him with this.

The man is two years removed from being MVP.

He's never been this inaccurate in his entire career. Inconsistent here and there yeah. I'm not disagreeing that it looks bad right now. But it only takes a very basic amount of common sense to realize there's more at play here than him just being really inaccurate.

It's clear there's a direct correlation between his current play and his recovery from the shoulder surgery.

Our medical staff has a pretty rough track record.