We can’t go into next year with a Worley/Bradberry CB tandem

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

http://nflcombineresults.com/nflcombinedata.php?year=2012&pos=CB&college=

Norman's rank out of 37 CB prospects at the 2012 NFL Combine...

40 time: 31st out of 37 (that's going off of this site listing his time at 4.61, if the 4.66 listed on the Combine's website is accurate then he was 36th out of 37)

Bench: Tied for 24th out of 31

Vertical: Tied for 24th out of 31

Broad Jump: Tied for 5th out of 31

Shuttle: 22nd out of 25

3 cone: 20th out of 24

He tested well in the broad jump. He tested below to well below average in every other category.

You are comparing that to the 37 guys in one draft class of the combine, not the actual NFL CB's that are playing in the league, so I am not sure that is a definitive answer but more a measure of how he matched up in his class. 

Regardless, he isn't an elite athlete, that much we agree on.

[t96]

19 minutes ago, Car123 said:

If we kept Norman on the tag and spent only 1 draft pick on a CB (Bradberry) don’t you think we would have addressed those other needs with the two picks?

I don't really think it changed all that much. DG has always been a guy who thinks about the future just as much as the present. There was no way DG was giving Josh a long term deal so he still would've had an issue at CB long term, and drafting those guys then would've been his same solution to the problem that would've been there whether Josh stayed tagged or not. But let's assume that yes, we take Bradberry and not Worley or Sanchez. We then use that 3rd and 5th on other positions. You really think a 3rd round rookie, 5th round rookie and Josh would be the difference between 6-10 and winning the SB? Maybe we get into the playoffs with Josh, but those other picks don't change much of anything if used on different positions and even if we assume we get a stud like Kamara in the 3rd that year I still don't think that's enough that it propels us to SB win from 6-10. That season was a sh*tshow for many reasons and Josh being there or the draft going differently wouldn't have really changed much.

[t96]

27 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I suspect given the weak DE class in the draft and in free agency, Ansah will command more money that is reasonable.

Possibly but he's your classic boom/bust free agent. Had one season where he dominated, legitimately dominated. Then sucked the next year while battling injuries and then this most recent season came back and played solid but was inconsistent and slowed by injury and still not at the level of his dominant 2015. And those injuries are still a concern. Add in as well that 4-3 DEs don't get paid as much as 3-4 pass rushers have been recently and I don't think Ziggy will be stupidly expensive, so much so that we shouldn't consider him. We'll see how his market plays out, he may even stay in Detoit on the tag. But he's a guy I'd like to see here across from Addison with Pep and Horton rotating in, though of course price matters as you suggested.

[KDawg004]

7 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

Possibly but he's your classic boom/bust free agent. Had one season where he dominated, legitimately dominated. Then sucked the next year while battling injuries and then this most recent season came back and played solid but was inconsistent and slowed by injury and still not at the level of his dominant 2015. And those injuries are still a concern. Add in as well that 4-3 DEs don't get paid as much as 3-4 pass rushers have been recently and I don't think Ziggy will be stupidly expensive, so much so that we shouldn't consider him. We'll see how his market plays out, he may even stay in Detoit on the tag. But he's a guy I'd like to see here across from Addison with Pep and Horton rotating in, though of course price matters as you suggested.

Not true. Jason Pierre Paul got paid and he’s been inconsistent. Not to mention he blew his hand off in the accident. Pass rushers are at a premium. Heck, I wouldn’t doubt if Adrian Clayborn gets a nice little payday off that one Cowboys game. Ansah is going to get a pretty penny this offseason. I don’t mind aggressively pursuing him because he is young and entering what should be his prime at a position we desperately need help from in the present and future. But he will get paid handsomely.

[top dawg]

3 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

It's hard to say what are going to be our biggest defensive priorities at this juncture. We could lose Peppers, Star and Charles Johnson. That would make DL a priority. However, we also know that TD is playing his last year, so do you gamble on having a brand new guy come 2019? Mike Adams is 36 and really our only effective secondary player. Coleman will be 30 and needs to be upgraded. Bradberry, Worley and Munnerlyn were all underwhelming. It is possible that we have a lot more to remedy than it appears on the surface.

My personal opinion is that CB/S need addressing #1 because those are our most obvious weaknesses. It may be as simple as simply grabbing a good veteran CB and drafting a capable S. Easier said than done, I realize. If Peppers and Star return, I think we can delay any major work on the DL, or perhaps grab a developmental edge guy in the 2nd-4th rounds. If either or both leave, I think we have to make it a top 3 round priority if we aren't able to make a FA signing. LB is probably the easiest gamble. We should be able to punt until 2019.

I get grabbing am edge guy if he's actually the BPA,  but we currently have some developmental guys to differing degrees.  Daeshon Hall,  Bryan Cox Jr. and Efe Obada are a little something to work with. Until I  see otherwise,  I am not going to sleep on them.  

If Pep comes back,  and they keep Horton,  then I'm thinking we'll be good to go.  I'm always up for an upgrade though.  

I don't see that kind of depth at CB.  Perhaps I am overestimating the young talent a DE and underestimating Corn Elder's potential impact,  but I just don't  see the depth.  Hell,  I could argue that Bradberry and Worley are the depth. 

[top dawg]

And it's not like our D-line didn't  represent itself fairly well last season... 

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, top dawg said:

And it's not like our D-line didn't  represent itself fairly well last season... 

I think the biggest issue is the age at DE. CJ likely gone and Peppers is probably going to retire at some point. As you said, if some of our developmental guys on the roster are legit, maybe it is something we don't have to deal with. I still think if Star leaves then that is likely a hole we probably have to fill this offseason.

[Bj-Monster23]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I think the biggest issue is the age at DE. CJ likely gone and Peppers is probably going to retire at some point. As you said, if some of our developmental guys on the roster are legit, maybe it is something we don't have to deal with. I still think if Star leaves then that is likely a hole we probably have to fill this offseason.

That and injuries have been a concern too. We do have a little depth with Cox, Horton, and hopefully Hall if he can add weight and comeback healthy. I still will say in my opinion it's time to add a legit Safety and we have to find a shutdown corner to takeaway Michael Thomas, Julio Jones, and Mike Evans away. Our secondary just gives up too many big plays. 

[t96]

22 minutes ago, top dawg said:

And it's not like our D-line didn't  represent itself fairly well last season... 

Well it was solid but not where we should want it to be... Why did we have to blitz so much to generate pressure?

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

You are comparing that to the 37 guys in one draft class of the combine, not the actual NFL CB's that are playing in the league, so I am not sure that is a definitive answer but more a measure of how he matched up in his class. 

Regardless, he isn't an elite athlete, that much we agree on.

Where exactly do you think that the current NFL CBs come from? The vast majority of them participate in the Combine. Compare his numbers through the years. They're below average to well below average.

[ColumbusCounty]

Will now have to see Washington's scheme before we cast either one out... 

New scheme, offseason training and 3rd year may equal promise. We do need quality depth to push these guys though.

Gunter impressed me when he came in for his limited snaps during our last game...Seymour is up in the air. Munnerlyn seems to have lost a step but hopefully Elder will contribute next season. We need a vet who still has wheels and maybe a draft pick. 

[Bj-Monster23]

1 minute ago, ColumbusCounty said:

Will now have to see Washington's scheme before we cast either one out... 

New scheme, offseason training and 3rd year may equal promise. We do need quality depth to push these guys though.

Gunter impressed me when he came in for his limited snaps during our last game...Seymour is up in the air. Munnerlyn seems to have lost a step but hopefully Elder will contribute next season. We need a vet who still has wheels and maybe a draft pick. 

Two Veterans that interest me is Kyle Fuller and Trumaine Johnson! I remember watching Fuller coming out of Vtech and he was a big time playmaker and now his brother who plays for the Redskins has become one of the better players in that secondary now. I do think that Fuller and definitely Trumaine from the Rams who had a down year due to injury can definitely help us. The Rams might not keep him due to salary. 

[kungfoodude]

16 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Where exactly do you think that the current NFL CBs come from? The vast majority of them participate in the Combine. Compare his numbers through the years. They're below average to well below average.

I am not sure why you want to argue something that is relatively subjective and based on a pretty small data set. To that point, only 12 of those players on your list are still in the NFL. 20% of the CB's that were drafted in 2012 were actually not at the combine. Only 65% of the combine participants were drafted. If you want to include historic data, why not give me where he ranks among active NFL CB's in those workout/combine numbers? Isn't that ultimately the best data to support your point regarding where he ranks athletically?

[kungfoodude]

18 minutes ago, Bj-Monster23 said:

Two Veterans that interest me is Kyle Fuller and Trumaine Johnson! I remember watching Fuller coming out of Vtech and he was a big time playmaker and now his brother who plays for the Redskins has become one of the better players in that secondary now. I do think that Fuller and definitely Trumaine from the Rams who had a down year due to injury can definitely help us. The Rams might not keep him due to salary. 

Gaines from the Bills or Melvin from the Colts would be good options, if they become available. It looks like a pretty deep CB pool in free agency, so I am hopeful we can get a solid veteran. I would even consider someone like Patrick Robinson if the price is right. We don't necessarily need a franchise cover cover, just a solid veteran to let Bradberry and Worley shift around and maybe develop a little more.