Conventional wisdom on the NFL "run game" is wrong

[Adb6368]

1 hour ago, ecu88 said:

Bersin on a go route, they will never see it coming.

 

 

Not nearly as effective as bersin.. on a bubble screen... in the playoffs... against the legion of boom in their prime 

[GoobyPls]

Everyone with half a brain knows that by now, it’s not the 1960s anymore. The rules are catered to the passing game 

 

You should always pass to set up the running game. Both SB teams are pass first teams. Give Cam some weapons and we can be a pass first team also 

[panthers55]

40 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Everyone with half a brain knows that by now, it’s not the 1960s anymore. The rules are catered to the passing game 

 

You should always pass to set up the running game. Both SB teams are pass first teams. Give Cam some weapons and we can be a pass first team also 

The problem with saying you have to pass first to set up the run is that you become predictable if you always come out passing. Plus if you are playing a team with a top notch secondary who gives up 160 yards on the ground and you are a top running team, you aren't coming out throwing. 

Using always and never almost guarantees you will be wrong a good portion  of the time

[GoobyPls]

55 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

The problem with saying you have to pass first to set up the run is that you become predictable if you always come out passing. Plus if you are playing a team with a top notch secondary who gives up 160 yards on the ground and you are a top running team, you aren't coming out throwing. 

Using always and never almost guarantees you will be wrong a good portion  of the time

The pats just came out against the best pass defense in the NFL and threw it 38 times. 

 

You are using specific scenarios just to prove a point, instead of looking at it in the big picture. You can nitpick at the word always all you want but it’s the truth for today’s NFL.

[rayzor]

8 hours ago, WarHeel said:

Everyone here have an aversion to CatScratchReader? 

 

They are more or less competition for the huddle and they've used Jeremy's photos without credit.

[Jangler]

11 hours ago, thomas96 said:

You need balance but having a strong run game is crucial for controlling the clock and when going up against elite QBs who can pick apart elite defenses, for keeping them off the field. Most successful passing attacks utilize the play action to a T. Can't do that unless you can establish the threat of the run game. 

 

And please realize that most west coast offense's passing plays are basically running plays. 

Jerry Rice proved it year after year. most of his yards were after the catch. The 80's/early90's 49ers were a run dominate team. and this can be done in Carolina with the right mindset.

[panthers55]

7 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

The pats just came out against the best pass defense in the NFL and threw it 38 times. 

 

You are using specific scenarios just to prove a point, instead of looking at it in the big picture. You can nitpick at the word always all you want but it’s the truth for today’s NFL.

Because big picture generalizations are largely useless when talking about what teams and offenses should do. The game is all about specific scenarios and weekly adjustments.

BTW I said when you go up against a top secondary and have a great running game you don't pass. New England only ran the ball 147 times all year so they passed because that is all they had this year. So even your specific response which you took me to task for making, is not germaine to the discussion.

[GoobyPls]

10 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Because big picture generalizations are largely useless when talking about what teams and offenses should do. The game is all about specific scenarios and weekly adjustments.

BTW I said when you go up against a top secondary and have a great running game you don't pass. New England only ran the ball 147 times all year so they passed because that is all they had this year. So even your specific response which you took me to task for making, is not germaine to the discussion.

Big picture is not generalization when it paints the entire picture. Facts are facts the best offenses in the NFL are mostly pass first, both SB teams this year are pass first, the nfl is a pass first league.

 

Dion Lewis was better than both Mccaffrey and Stewart this season. The Patriots know passing the ball early always set the tone, especially with the rules today where everything is a PI

[AU-panther]

We have a old school coach that believes in running the ball and controlling the clock and a QB that seems to be better at big plays in the passing game.  Not sure if that is the best combination.

in some ways it is actually more difficult to be a QB in a conservative system.  You run on first and second and then next thing you know it is third and long and the defense is loading up on the pass.  I would love to see Cam’s completion percentage by down.  

I don’t mind us adding the short passing attack to our offense but it needs to come more at the expense of the running game than the deep passing attack.

[panthers55]

4 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Big picture is not generalization when it paints the entire picture. Facts are facts the best offenses in the NFL are mostly pass first, both SB teams this year are pass first, the nfl is a pass first league.

 

Dion Lewis was better than both Mccaffrey and Stewart this season. The Patriots know passing the ball early always set the tone, especially with the rules today where everything is a PI

What do you think big picture means? It means look at everything and make generalizations about trends, and circumstsnces.. The fact that teams pass more than they run isn't new or that different from 20 years ago.  You know in 2003 we passed more than we ran. This is a passing league not necessarily a pass first league. The fact teams pass more than they run is the nature of the game but it isn't particularly new or novel. 

Did Dion do better than Stewart, Cam and McCaffrey because that is our running attack. No. The Patriots are not the norm so why use them to describe generalities or big picture trends when they aren't like anyone else.?

[RealisticPanther]

14 hours ago, panthers55 said:

What do you think big picture means? It means look at everything and make generalizations about trends, and circumstsnces.. The fact that teams pass more than they run isn't new or that different from 20 years ago.  You know in 2003 we passed more than we ran. This is a passing league not necessarily a pass first league. The fact teams pass more than they run is the nature of the game but it isn't particularly new or novel. 

Did Dion do better than Stewart, Cam and McCaffrey because that is our running attack. No. The Patriots are not the norm so why use them to describe generalities or big picture trends when they aren't like anyone else.?

listen, don't try to explain logic to someone who doesn't have logic skills. He doesn't have the intelligence.

[GoobyPls]

14 hours ago, panthers55 said:

What do you think big picture means? It means look at everything and make generalizations about trends, and circumstsnces.. The fact that teams pass more than they run isn't new or that different from 20 years ago.  You know in 2003 we passed more than we ran. This is a passing league not necessarily a pass first league. The fact teams pass more than they run is the nature of the game but it isn't particularly new or novel. 

Did Dion do better than Stewart, Cam and McCaffrey because that is our running attack. No. The Patriots are not the norm so why use them to describe generalities or big picture trends when they aren't like anyone else.?

Everyone knows most teams pass more than run, that isn’t the topic and that isn’t what I commented about.

 

You said the patriots had no running game, yet their runningback did better than any of ours. So what is it?

I also brought up the eagles who are also a pass first team. Go look up the top 5 offenses of the past 5 years 95% are pass first. It’s called adjusting to the rules 

[panthers55]

27 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Everyone knows most teams pass more than run, that isn’t the topic and that isn’t what I commented about.

 

You said the patriots had no running game, yet their runningback did better than any of ours. So what is it?

I also brought up the eagles who are also a pass first team. Go look up the top 5 offenses of the past 5 years 95% are pass first. It’s called adjusting to the rules 

No Dion didn't do better than Cam, McCaffrey and Stewart combined. Our running attack is 3 guys, there is largely 1. 

New England ran the ball 150 times all year and passed over 700 times so that tells you they didn't have much of a running game.

You are wrong about the Eagles also. They ran the ball 473 times and attempted passes 564 times completing 341.  That is not that different than the Panthers who ran the ball 490 and passed 501 completing 300. By your definition using the Eagles I guess we were a pass first team as well... ..

[panthers55]

42 minutes ago, RealisticPanther said:

listen, don't try to explain logic to someone who doesn't have logic skills. He doesn't have the intelligence.

Gonna try one more time knowing he will come back with more incorrect comments and faulty logic.  Like my signature has said, I can explain it to you but can't understand it for you...