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Why some proposed trades won't happen

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted

Lots of talk lately proposing this trade and that, but one thing needs to be clearly understood to determine whether an idea can be considered realistic or not.

Given the team's awful start and recent issues, it's pretty safe to say that head coach John Fox is sitting on the proverbial hot seat. It's also a safe bet that he knows this, and you can expect that knowledge to skew his mindset.

Logically speaking, a coach on the hot seat is not going to trade for someone that can help "down the road".

Fox doesn't want to lose his job, so if a trade proposal doesn't do anything to help him keep his job, what's the point? After all, if he isn't dead certain that the future of the Carolina Panthers belongs to him, then why should Fox make a trade that might only benefit his replacement?

Bottom Line: If a proposed trade doesn't help the team win now, it's pretty safe to conclude it ain't happenin' :nonod:

With that in mind, I'd say it's highly unlikely a trade for Brady Quinn - or any other "quarterback of the future" - will be made this season. No matter how much some might like him, Quinn isn't going to help the team win right away.

"But we have his old OC and QB coach" you say, "That helps." Not necessarily. Davidson was Browns OC for part of a season, but running prior OC Maurice Carthon's playbook, not his own. Quinn would have to learn the Davidson system. How similar that is to Carthon's? Unknown, but safe to say it's different from the ones Quinn's been running the past two years. And Quinn's not a veteran guy like A J Feeley or Vinny Testaverde that's seen enough to be able to adapt quickly.

Throw in that having QB coach Rip Scherer doesn't necessarily mean we want Quinn or Derek Anderson. No one really knows what Scherer truly thinks of them at this point. For all we know, privately he may have told Coach Fox "don't bother with either of those guys".

On the other side of the ball, any trade idea that gives away Julius Peppers you can pretty much discount right off the bat. For whatever you might think of him, Fox believes in him. He might listen to a trade offer that brought someone who could play alongside Peppers, but given the overall situation it's pretty difficult to imagine that happening.

So as you're crafting your trade scenarios, just remember to keep a couple things in mind regarding Fox...

Immediate results matter most right now.

Long term improvement? Not so much.

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Urrymonster Newbie

Urrymonster

Posted
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Bingo.

I tried to make this point in another thread but it quickly got swept away by completely unrealistic trades.

People need to just stop thinking about the overall picture, ie the future of the Panthers, and focus more on being in Fox's shoes. No way he trades Pep, even for multiple first rounds, also no way he trades for a QB who may or may not be a complete bust. Not when he has to gamble that he will be around to see if it pays off.

Like you say, I wouldn't put it past them trading a draft pick or two to try and get someone to play alongside Peppers, as in their eyes, what is there to lose?

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PantherBrew Newbie

PantherBrew

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Either on the surface, or very deep down most people on here know that nothing is going to happen.

Alot of people, myself included, are taking part into some wishful thinking. Do I wish we would make a trade for Brady Quinn for a 4th rounder? Yes. Do I believe we will. Very Unlikely.

I do believe, however if Marty Hurney would like a chance to untie himself from fox and have a shot to stay he could make this move.

Also, I believe the Big Cat loves Julius Peppers, and I would imagine he would have no problems paying the man. The more and more I think about it, I think Pep will sign a long term deal, much to my dismay. So any trade would have to get the approval of Jerry, and I dont see that happening.

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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Actually a trade of a draft pick for Brady Quinn doesn't fit that logic at all. Both are future events neither of which will impact the Panthers much this year but would benefit the Panthers down the road. So trading for him would help us as much as a draft pick would. Fitting it under the salary cap could be another issue entirely. Trading Quinn for a player like Peppers is alot more complex and makes alot less sense.

Trading Peppers for a draft pick makes no sense at this late junction. Not because Fox is on the hot seat (although he might be), but because it makes no sense not to trade him before the season and then to do it now unless someone was giving unreal compensation which they are not. It isn't like having salary cap room benefits us at this point with nobody to pick up. We can easily franchise Peppers and try to sign him longterm at the end of the season and failing that either trade him or keep him given that there may not be cap ramifications in 2010 if a new CBA isnt reaches..

And trading Peppers for another player is unrealistic for a number of reasons.

I would agree that Fox and Hurney won't do anything to scuttle their chances to win this year, but I don't agree that there are any reasonable scenarios out there where trading Peppers now would result in better options for the future versus taking this up after the season is over. It makes little sense whether Fox was on the hotseat or not.

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Kevin Greene Newbie

Kevin Greene

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Actually a trade of a draft pick for Brady Quinn doesn't fit that logic at all. Both are future events neither of which will impact the Panthers much this year but would benefit the Panthers down the road. So trading for him would help us as much as a draft pick would. Fitting it under the salary cap could be another issue entirely. Trading Quinn for a player like Peppers is alot more complex and makes alot less sense.

Trading Peppers for a draft pick makes no sense at this late junction. Not because Fox is on the hot seat (although he might be), but because it makes no sense not to trade him before the season and then to do it now unless someone was giving unreal compensation which they are not. It isn't like having salary cap room benefits us at this point with nobody to pick up. We can easily franchise Peppers and try to sign him longterm at the end of the season and failing that either trade him or keep him given that there may not be cap ramifications in 2010 if a new CBA isnt reaches..

And trading Peppers for another player is unrealistic for a number of reasons.

I would agree that Fox and Hurney won't do anything to scuttle their chances to win this year, but I don't agree that there are any reasonable scenarios out there where trading Peppers now would result in better options for the future versus taking this up after the season is over. It makes little sense whether Fox was on the hotseat or not.

Yep, and it doesn't matter which side you're on at a million dollars a game Peppers is going no where under any circumstances. Quinn (if you're of the mind he has potential) on the other hand for a 4th, gives you a player on your roster today for compensation in the future.

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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Agree fully Mr Scot. Lame duck coach, help us win now or not going to happen.

Lame duck coach or not, it would be stupid for anyone to trade a player who is helping the team right now for a draft pick down the road at this junction. Unless a team is willing to wildly overpay with draft picks for the player now, the same deal you can get now, you can get in March.

Since this is largely about Peppers, who is going to give us tons of compensation to trade him now that we can't get after the end of the season? That is why it won't get done, regardless of whether Hurney or Fox are here or not.

If they wanted to win at all costs right now they would be offering all kinds of draft picks for players right now. Since that isn't happening either, you can assume they aren't so up against the wall that they are willing to throw away the future for instant success either.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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Lame duck coach or not, it would be stupid for anyone to trade a player who is helping the team right now for a draft pick down the road at this junction. Unless a team is willing to wildly overpay with draft picks for the player now, the same deal you can get now, you can get in March.

Since this is largely about Peppers, who is going to give us tons of compensation to trade him now that we can't get after the end of the season? That is why it won't get done, regardless of whether Hurney or Fox are here or not.

If they wanted to win at all costs right now they would be offering all kinds of draft picks for players right now. Since that isn't happening either, you can assume they aren't so up against the wall that they are willing to throw away the future for instant success either.

I don't think the Big Cat will give the green light for Hurney/Fox to hit a big panic button and continue to trade away the future simply to keep a sinking boat afloat. I think Fox right now is on the hottest seat he has ever felt before.

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monstercat Newbie

monstercat

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Why would anyone want Quinn anyway? I don't get this. He has been garbage. Moving garbage from one team to another, it's still garbage.

That's what gets me. Fox is being criticized because he won't trade for guys who have done next to nothing in the NFL. I seriously doubt that Quinn or Dorsey will make much of a difference to the Panthers this year or next year.

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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I don't think the Big Cat will give the green light for Hurney/Fox to hit a big panic button and continue to trade away the future simply to keep a sinking boat afloat. I think Fox right now is on the hottest seat he has ever felt before.

Why? He is coming off a 12-4 season and if we end up winning the next 2 will be 3-3. Last year after six games we were 4-2 against an easier schedule. If we lose the next 2 maybe the seat gets much hotter. But at this point we could be 1 game worse off than last year after 6 games with a much harder schedule.

I agree that Big Cat wouldn't endorse a panic trade but that may be because he is not as upset as many people here are.

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PuntJake Newbie

PuntJake

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this thread talks a lot about what fox's impressions are and what he's thinking. whether he'd make this trade or that trade or for this player or that player or if it helps now or later....

fox doesn't pull the trigger on trades..... it comes from above his head so what he thinks, or would do isn't even an issue to be considered. he coaches the players that are presented to him with very little control, i'd imagine, over what trade deals are actually accepted.

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