Sugar coating RBs, CJ lead back

[Pantha-kun]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I wasn't upset about the CMC selection, but yeah, if I was making the pick it would've been Malik Hooker. 

Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20, but just think, we could've had Hooker or Lattimore at #8 to help our woeful secondary, taken JuJu Smith-Schuster in the 2nd, then had our pick of Kamara or Kareem Hunt in the 3rd. That's better weapons for Cam plus a help for our weakest overall unit.

I still think CMC can be a very good player for us, but I said it at the time he was picked and I still say it now, I don't think he'll ever live up to the expectations of a top 10 pick at RB. 

you cant make picks in hindsight .. no one knew that Smith Shuster would be that good and USC receivers had generally a bad rep in the NFL. Hunt was from Toledo and most people didnt know who tf he was, and Kamara was good but had a really small sample size/work load from UT to draw from.

Keep in mind also we got 3 secondary positions pretty high  in the 2016 draft , it wouldve be asking a lot to have gettleman draft more of them when we had such a dysfunctional offense that couldnt move the ball consistently. 

Who really knows what wouldve happened. Hell maybe Hooker or Lattimore wouldnt be as good on our team (with lesser talent surrounding them) or they couldve gotten injured. And what happens if you take CMC out of the 2017 offense, thats a fug ton of 3rd down conversions now gone and id guess a much worse and more predictable offense with Ginn being gone and Stew declining/Greg and R.Kalil out for so long. 

CMC Didnt do flashy shi.t outside of the playoff TD but he was a huge reason why we ended up being one of the best teams in terms of moving the balls betweeen the 20s and converting 3rd downs last year. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Pantha-kun said:

you cant make picks in hindsight .. no one knew that Smith Shuster would be that good and USC receivers had generally a bad rep in the NFL. Hunt was from Toledo and most people didnt know who tf he was, and Kamara was good but had a really small sample size/work load from UT to draw from.

Keep in mind also we got 3 secondary positions pretty high  in the 2016 draft , it wouldve be asking a lot to have gettleman draft more of them when we had such a dysfunctional offense that couldnt move the ball consistently. 

NFL GMs absolutely knew who Hunt was. The big red flag on Kamara was some fumblitis.

Gettleman drafted 3 CBs in 2016. Tre Boston was the only safety he ever drafted and he was a 4th rounder.

[The Huddler]

44 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Hence the "hindsight is always 20/20" comment.

Please, Kamara and Hunt are straight studs. They're plug and play anywhere.

But would we plug and play them here..  

[LinvilleGorge]

40 minutes ago, The Huddler said:

But would we plug and play them here..  

Seeing that we signed a mid-level FA RB this offseason and drafted a RB #8 overall last year who got nearly 200 touches as a rookie, yeah I think there would've been a few snaps and touches available for Kamara or Hunt..

[Woodie]

40 minutes ago, The Huddler said:

But would we plug and play them here..  

No. Steward was always going to be the starter and get the bulk of run plays.  Kamara was a stud because he had a creative coach that knew how to design plays to best utilize his skillset as well as the pieces around him to keep defenses from keying on him. 

Shula misused CMC and admitted late in the year that he was just starting to figure out what he can do.  Both Hunt and Kamara would have been sitting behind Stewart getting inconsistent carries, and not being able to get in any kind of groove...just like CMC.  

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Woodie said:

No. Steward was always going to be the starter and get the bulk of run plays.  Kamara was a stud because he had a creative coach that knew how to design plays to best utilize his skillset as well as the pieces around him to keep defenses from keying on him. 

Shula misused CMC and admitted late in the year that he was just starting to figure out what he can do.  Both Hunt and Kamara would have been sitting behind Stewart getting inconsistent carries, and not being able to get in any kind of groove...just like CMC.  

Kamara had 201 touches last season. CMC had 197. They were both in roles where they were splitting time with a power back.

[Woodie]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Seeing that we signed a mid-level FA RB this offseason and drafted a RB #8 overall last year who got nearly 200 touches as a rookie, yeah I think there would've been a few snaps and touches available for Kamara or Hunt..

Few, but nowhere near the number they got as rookies.  You can't look at what they did this year to base what would have happened if they were here last season.  You know as well as I do that the coaching staff likes familiarity, it's why they tend to stick with guys past the time it's obvious to everyone else they should move on. 

They knew and were comfortable with Stewart as the starter, and no rookie was going to come in and take any more touches from him than CMC did.  And don't use hindsight to cloud your opinion.  Nobody thought either Kamara or Hunt would be as good as the ended up being.  If they had any clue, they wouldn't have lasted until the third round.  

[Pantha-kun]

6 minutes ago, Woodie said:

Few, but nowhere near the number they got as rookies.  You can't look at what they did this year to base what would have happened if they were here last season.  You know as well as I do that the coaching staff likes familiarity, it's why they tend to stick with guys past the time it's obvious to everyone else they should move on. 

They knew and were comfortable with Stewart as the starter, and no rookie was going to come in and take any more touches from him than CMC did.  And don't use hindsight to cloud your opinion.  Nobody thought either Kamara or Hunt would be as good as the ended up being.  If they had any clue, they wouldn't have lasted until the third round.  

even Hunt starting on KC was more of an accident b/c their starting RB got injured. 

I think people often just assume "great player would be great reguardless of what team they were on" but im going to highly disagree.

Kamara had possibly the most accurate QB of all time , a ridiculously improved elite version of Ted Ginn Jr taking safteys off the line, Michael Thomas pretty much always finding ways to get open. In general he was on a much offense, with a much better oline, and MUCH better playcalling. God only knows what he couldve done with our shaky run blocking and Shula running him strait up the gut about once per quarter of play in the first half of the season, and a much more innacurate qb throwing to him. 

[Woodie]

5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Kamara had 201 touches last season. CMC had 197. They were both in roles where they were splitting time with a power back.

First of all, not all touches are created equal.  Second of all, Kamara spent the early part of the season behind AP as well as Ingram.  So, his touches dramatically increased as the season went on, where I think our staff utilized CMC as a decoy more as the season went on.  

The bottom line is it isn't about touches, it's about how each player was used.  Kamara and Hunt were used the way they should have been, while CMC was used as an occasional power back and outlet receiver.  It had nothing to do with capabilities, just usage.  And the way each of them would have been used here is 180 degrees from they way they actually were used.

Switch Kamara and CMC, and we would be having this same discussion, just with the names changed.  Nobody was going to overtake Stewart as the focal point of our run game, no matter how much it should have happened.   

[LinvilleGorge]

I mean, you can continue to do all the mental gymnastics you want to do, but the bottom line is that both Kamara and Hunt were significantly better RBs as rookies than the guy we picked #8 overall.

I hope CMC added some strength this offseason and that’s Norv will do a better job of capitalizing on his strengths.

[The Huddler]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Seeing that we signed a mid-level FA RB this offseason and drafted a RB #8 overall last year who got nearly 200 touches as a rookie, yeah I think there would've been a few snaps and touches available for Kamara or Hunt..

OUr OC and scheme was garbage 

[GoobyPls]

3 hours ago, Woodie said:

First of all, not all touches are created equal.  Second of all, Kamara spent the early part of the season behind AP as well as Ingram.  So, his touches dramatically increased as the season went on, where I think our staff utilized CMC as a decoy more as the season went on.  

The bottom line is it isn't about touches, it's about how each player was used.  Kamara and Hunt were used the way they should have been, while CMC was used as an occasional power back and outlet receiver.  It had nothing to do with capabilities, just usage.  And the way each of them would have been used here is 180 degrees from they way they actually were used.

Switch Kamara and CMC, and we would be having this same discussion, just with the names changed.  Nobody was going to overtake Stewart as the focal point of our run game, no matter how much it should have happened.   

Kamara can actually break tackles 

[Woodie]

12 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Kamara can actually break tackles 

CMC is more about speed, quickness, and explosion than power.  Nobody disputes that.  But CMC is better at breaking tackles than a lot of people here want to give him credit for.  Nobody's going to break a whole lot of tackles when defenses get clean shots and are able to gang tackle, like happened last year.  Play design often clogged the middle and Shula tended to run our guys right into that clog.  

Since so much of our offense was underneath, there was really not much space for any of our backs to run...even when they took it outside, there were usually multiple defenders waiting.  And that's not something Kamara faced much last year.  He had a coach that knew how to create space for his backs to work.  So both of NO's backs had more room to work and they rarely got hit full on by multiple defenders within the first 5-10 yards like CMC and Stewart did. 

While CMC will never be a power back like some here want, he does have enough power to break arm tackles, and he is good at using his shiftiness to avoid solid hits and get to the second level.  But that only works when there's somewhere to shift to, which requires a coach that knows how to spread defenses out...which I believe we finally now have.

 

[top dawg]

Tim Weaver at USA Today

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2018/07/19/should-christian-mccaffrey-or-c-j-anderson-start-for-panthers-at-rb/

According to the poll, it seems Panthers fans are split. Anderson is the leader though. 

We are a more traditional offense with hints of evolution. Now that we seemingly have better pieces and OC, let's see what transpires. I believe it's going to be just like I said: Anderson will take on Stew's role, with a generous helping of C-Mac. 

We may get game-specific as to who "starts."  That's what Belichick and McDaniels do. It may be the smart move...