If you can only fire one,who goes Hurney or Rivera?

[LinvilleGorge]

25 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The point isn't to analyze moves. It's to analyze results. You can praise or pick apart moves till the cows come home. All that matters is did we win or lose.

With Gettleman, we won. With Hurney, we don't. That's really all I care about.

Gettleman isn't coming back. Hurney should never have been rehired. Correct that mistake and we're good.

We didn't win consistently under Gettleman either. Zero back to back winning seasons. 

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The major deficiencies in the roster were also relics of the Gettleman era and not all Hurney's doing. The secondary woes? That would be Gettleman(all brought in by Gettleman except for Reid and Jackson). The pass rushing woes are a mix. Addison was a Hurney pick but Gettleman is responsible for his extension. Peppers was a Hurney guy and was brought back by Hurney. On the interior, Short was a Gettleman guy and extended by Gettleman. Kyle Love? Gettleman. Poe? Hurney. Butler? Gettleman. The offensive line woes? A mixed bag. Some of the bums are Gettleman's fault and some Hurney's. The worst player and worst contract on that line definitely fall in Gettleman's lap. 

The truth is you cannot blame Hurney for this offseason any more than you could blame Gettleman for having to dumpster dive his first 2-3 years here. They both got left a mismanaged roster. For Gettleman it was having to dig out of cap hell. For Hurney it has been having to deal with a very aging roster and holes that had been ignored or mismanaged by Gettleman(OT, CB specifically). They both deserve ample credit and ample blame. 

But let's not create some revisionist history and blame Hurney for this season's struggles. If anything, he has been maybe the best he has ever been in both stints. He tried to fill our secondary hole in free agency(old trench foot). It fell through. He drafted our current best WR and current best CB. He made critical signings mid-season on the OL and at S to try and salvage something. And Clark and Reid have been damn good for mid-season dumpster dives. Literally vintage Gettleman style dumpster dive successes. 

The fact is, we have enough talent to win these games. But we aren't for a variety of reasons. Injuries has been a big one, poor coaching and poor execution have been other big ones(obviously). I simply do not believe that we have seen the successes at some of these positions and with some of these players and suddenly they are just bums. In my eyes, a lot of this has to do with coaching. I think we have seen the biggest concession in that regard with Ron frantically making coaching changes and role changes during this stretch. That leads me to believe he realizes that most are going to perceive this as a coaching issue, as well. 

So basically, if Gettleman won, it was because of Hurney's players. But if Hurney loses, it's because of Gettleman's players.

Or maybe it's Ron Rivera's fault. This despite the fact that Ron Rivera went to the playoffs four out of five seasons, had a winning record, a historic season and went to the Super Bowl with Gettleman, but immediately went back to losing after Hurney took over again.

Essentially it's everybody's fault but Marty Hurney's.

Sure, that makes sense 

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We didn't win consistently under Gettleman either. Zero back to back winning seasons. 

Please. You know as well as I do just how silly that mantra is.

Four out of five seasons in the playoffs is winning consistently. It's also the most successful period in Panthers history.

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The major deficiencies in the roster were also relics of the Gettleman era and not all Hurney's doing. The secondary woes? That would be Gettleman(all brought in by Gettleman except for Reid and Jackson). The pass rushing woes are a mix. Addison was a Hurney pick but Gettleman is responsible for his extension. Peppers was a Hurney guy and was brought back by Hurney. On the interior, Short was a Gettleman guy and extended by Gettleman. Kyle Love? Gettleman. Poe? Hurney. Butler? Gettleman. The offensive line woes? A mixed bag. Some of the bums are Gettleman's fault and some Hurney's. The worst player and worst contract on that line definitely fall in Gettleman's lap. 

The truth is you cannot blame Hurney for this offseason any more than you could blame Gettleman for having to dumpster dive his first 2-3 years here. They both got left a mismanaged roster. For Gettleman it was having to dig out of cap hell. For Hurney it has been having to deal with a very aging roster and holes that had been ignored or mismanaged by Gettleman(OT, CB specifically). They both deserve ample credit and ample blame. 

But let's not create some revisionist history and blame Hurney for this season's struggles. If anything, he has been maybe the best he has ever been in both stints. He tried to fill our secondary hole in free agency(old trench foot). It fell through. He drafted our current best WR and current best CB. He made critical signings mid-season on the OL and at S to try and salvage something. And Clark and Reid have been damn good for mid-season dumpster dives. Literally vintage Gettleman style dumpster dive successes. 

The fact is, we have enough talent to win these games. But we aren't for a variety of reasons. Injuries has been a big one, poor coaching and poor execution have been other big ones(obviously). I simply do not believe that we have seen the successes at some of these positions and with some of these players and suddenly they are just bums. In my eyes, a lot of this has to do with coaching. I think we have seen the biggest concession in that regard with Ron frantically making coaching changes and role changes during this stretch. That leads me to believe he realizes that most are going to perceive this as a coaching issue, as well. 

This. We all praised Gettleman early on because his free agent dumpster diving roster patching worked brilliantly. But after those first two seasons, his free agent choices went to hell and all of his 1st rounders ended up underwhelming.

Both GMs have plenty of issues and hopefully after this season the franchise will have a completely new direction.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Please. You know as well as I do just how silly that mantra is.

Four out of five seasons in the playoffs is winning consistently. It's also the most successful period in Panthers history.

Sorry, I don't give credit for being dealt a lucky hand and having the entire division being trash a couple of years. That's much more luck than skill. The criteria for a winning season remains constant while the criteria for making the playoffs is always shifting.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Sorry, I don't give credit for being dealt a lucky hand and having the entire division being trash a couple of years. That's much more luck than skill.

Did we have back-to-back losing seasons under Gettleman?

(sure as hell had em under Marty)

[NanuqoftheNorth]

So what have we learned?

Hurney can't win with Gettleman's guys.

And, Hurney can't win with his own guys either.

At some point, after more than a decade, you should come to the conclusion, Hurney simply can't win.

Hurney has had two bites at the apple, more than most with his track record.

It is well past time for Hurney to pack his bags and return to his radio station.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Did we have back-to-back losing seasons under Gettleman?

(sure as hell had em under Marty)

Like I said, I think overall Gettleman was better than Hurney, but I'm ready to move on from both. I think you're so jaded by your Hurney hate that you've used revisionist history to turn Dave Gettleman into Bill Walsh in your mind.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Essentially it's everybody's fault but Marty Hurney's.

But, Marty is a nice man!

[LinvilleGorge]

I wish we could keep Hurney around just to make 1st round picks. Like that's literally his only job. Make the 1st round pick, then spend the rest of the year on the golf course. See ya again when we get into heavy draft evaluation mode.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Like I said, I think overall Gettleman was better than Hurney, but I'm ready to move on from both. I think you're so jaded by your Hurney hate that you've used revisionist history to turn Dave Gettleman into Bill Walsh in your mind.

Good grief 

Gettleman wasn't perfect. No GM is, but he was infinitely better than Hurney. How do I know that? Because we won.

That we won more than any other period in Panthers history isn't arguable. You can try as hard as possible to explain it away, but it's an established fact of history.

What's also a fact? Our dumbass owner fired him. 

What's that mean? It means he's never coming back. Fine. Let's get somebody new.

But let's not pretend that Marty is up to the task just because he's here now.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I wish we could keep Hurney around just to make 1st round picks. Like that's literally his only job. Make the 1st round pick, then spend the rest of the year on the golf course. See ya again when we get into heavy draft evaluation mode.

As long as he isn't allowed to trade next year's first round pick away it might just work.

Then again, when you're someone picking early every other year, it tends to make your picks look a whole lot better. 

[Car123]

Just now, NanuqoftheNorth said:

So what have we learned?

Hurney can't win with Gettleman's guys.

And, Hurney can't win with his own guys either.

At some point, after more than a decade, you should come to the conclusion, Hurney simply can't win.

Hurney has had two bites at the apple, more than most with his track record.

It is well past time for Hurney to pack his bags and return to his radio station.

Who are these Gettleman guys? Kalil, Adams, Short, Mayo, Butler. Most of his players are a hinderance to the team. The only good Gettleman players are CMC, Moton, DW, and maybe Samuel.

Best WR - Hurney guy

Best TE - Hurney guy

Best DL - Hurney guy

Best CB - Hurney guy

Best S - Hurney guy

Best LBs - Hurney guys

Seriously how many positions did DG upgrade?

[LinvilleGorge]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's tough because I'd absolutely fire both of them. Hiring Hurney back for the job he was fired from for failing miserably was one of the most idiotic business decisions I've ever seen.

 

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Good grief 

Gettleman wasn't perfect. No GM is, but he was infinitely better than Hurney. How do I know that? Because we won.

That we won more than any other period in Panthers history isn't arguable. You can try as hard as possible to explain it away, but it's an established fact of history.

What's also a fact? Our dumbass owner fired him. 

What's that mean? It means he's never coming back. Fine. Let's get somebody new.

But let's not pretend that Marty is up to the task just because he's here now.

 

LOL! It's legit comical how heated you get over the Gettleman/Hurney stuff. I guess in your blind rage, you missed my first post in this thread.