4-3 vs. 3-4: What moves do you make for the front 7?

[Sub Zero]

5 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Maybe we were thinking about it last year with the signing of Poe and drafting of Haynes.

Short/Poe/Butler

Addison/Shaq/Kuechly/Haynes

I am not saying that group will excel but its kind of hard to read Ron and Marty's minds.  Even if you don't like 1-2 of those pieces it should be kind of easy to fill through free agency and the draft.

 

 

We're not flush with money.. And you also need backups as well.. Also I find it weird how easy ppl would consider putting Butler and Hayes as starters.. When you really don't want them to start at the scheme we run now..

[PantherNation123]

29 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Maybe we were thinking about it last year with the signing of Poe and drafting of Haynes.

Short/Poe/Butler

Addison/Shaq/Kuechly/Haynes

I am not saying that group will excel but its kind of hard to read Ron and Marty's minds.  Even if you don't like 1-2 of those pieces it should be kind of easy to fill through free agency and the draft.

 

 

Butler at DE? No.  Addison at LB? No.  Haynes, the unproven guy who didn't see the field at LB? No.  

You don't magically flip a switch and become a 3-4 team, unless you want to suck ass for a couple years.  We simply don't have the pieces on our roster, and it would take a minimum of 2 years to get a semblance of a 3-4 defense 

[AU-panther]

2 minutes ago, PantherNation123 said:

Butler at DE? No.  Addison at LB? No.  Haynes, the unproven guy who didn't see the field at LB? No.  

You don't magically flip a switch and become a 3-4 team, unless you want to suck ass for a couple years.  We simply don't have the pieces on our roster, and it would take a minimum of 2 years to get a semblance of a 3-4 defense 

I'm not saying they are the answer, just that maybe the team had this in mind last year with the signing of Poe and drafting of Haynes.  

That doesn't mean they are going about it correctly, just that there is a chance this wasn't something just decided last Tuesday.

 

[PantherNation123]

11 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

I'm not saying they are the answer, just that maybe the team had this in mind last year with the signing of Poe and drafting of Haynes.  

That doesn't mean they are going about it correctly, just that there is a chance this wasn't something just decided last Tuesday.

 

I get what you're saying, but that would be pretty foolish in my opinion.  We'll see what happens though

[Khyber53]

After the defensive clusterf!&*% that was last season, how would we recognize if the 3-4 caused us to be worse.

I have little to no confidence in Washington being able to make that transition as DC, even with Rivera making the play calls. It wasn't just the play calling that was bad, Washington didn't have that defense even close to ready... it was like the first hour and 15 minutes of The Waterboy back there with us hoping Luke was going to be able to pass that test.

If we do switch to a 3-4, the change will have to start at the DC position before we rearrange even a single player.

 

[yasuhara2241]

IMO, we have some pieces but are missing the most important piece which is the OLB which seems to be more readily available that 4-3 DEs. 

DT: Poe & Love. Poe is actually better suited for the 3-4. Love, I believe played the Nose in a 3-4 with NE. 

DE: Short & Butler: Short's impact would be limited at DE in a 3-4. I'd be interested how we sell him on this because there are not usually high sack players at DE in a 3-4 defense. Butler is a huge question mark. Hasn't made a dent at DT in a 4-3 but maybe better suited at the DE. Remember, the dline is about gap control in a 3-4 moreso than applying pressure. 

MLB: We are set with Luke and Shaq. I actually like this because Shaq can also rush the passer pretty well and could blitz more often. I am guessing Carter and Mayo would be backups. 

OLB: This is the huge question mark. I think Addison would be fine but not great. He would struggle tremendously in pass coverage. Haynes has the size of 3-4 OLB but who knows what he has to offer. If we pick a "tweener DE" in the 1st 2 rounds we are definitely switching. 

 

[TheMaulClaw]

2 hours ago, Sub Zero said:

Wait a minute?? I've seen this opinion more than a few times as well.. I don't get it.. Addison is not a 3/4 OLB.. There is more to the job than being a speed rusher.. You also need to be able to drop back in pass coverage and not just zone.. Man to man as well.. Addison has  shown no ability to in that.. 

And if any player on the roster can make this change seamlessly it's Luke..

Size speed and intelligence Luke has it all to be a 3/4 ILB.. Him and Poe are the only players we have to fit that scheme..

You may be right about Luke.  I suppose my understanding of ideal personnel in a 3-4 may be off.  I always thought we'd be looking for a bit bigger inside backers  for a 3-4 but hey look at Sam Mills.  I will say....Clowney had ZERO experience in the 3-4 before he went to Houston....outside of maybe dropping in a flat zone coverage from time to time.  I think what people see in Addison is this...is body type is similar to a Von Miller and some of the other 3-4 OLB pass rushers that have come out recently so it seems like a bit of a natural progression for him.  Also he'd be going against tight ends more the OT's and when he would have to match up against an OT a DT would be on that Tackles inside shoulder so he gets and advantage.  That's how I see it....but you know what they say about opinions.

[Trill OG]

Im all for the 3-4. We need more athletes on the field anyway. Im tired of our slow 4-3 defense. We don't have a good Dline anyway. Might as well just use Short/Poe/Butler and draft some athletes at OLB.

 

*Also why are people saying Luke can't play in a 3-4? Luke is a stud, he can play in any system.

[AU-panther]

Could Butler play NT?  they have him listed at 330

 

[Woodie]

5 hours ago, PantherNation123 said:

I'll say it again, but switching to a 3-4 would make our defense markedly worse for at least 2 years.  We just don't currently have the pieces for it.  Yes, we could draft some and pick some up in FA, but even then we wouldn't have enough talent or depth.

I personally prefer a 4-3 but am open to change.  Because of the time it would take to get fully up and running in a 3-4, I seriously doubt it will happen, considering the urgency Ron has to win now, or BYE BYE

We also don't currently have the pieces to run a 4-3.  No matter which scheme we decide to run, we will need to bring in several pieces.

The only 4-3 DE we have is Addison, and he's a huge liability in run defense as he struggles to hold the edge.  We also only have 2 starting level LB's.  So, if we stay as a 4-3, we'll need to find at least one, but likely two DE's, a FA and draft pick that can rush the passer.  And if we hope to improve, they'll need to be better in run defense.  We'll also need to find another LB.  Maybe Carter can handle it, but that's no given.

However, if we go 3-4, we'll need to find a DE (unless they feel Butler can do it, but that's a similar projection to Carter at LB).  Despite what some think, Addison should be able to play the rush LB in a 3-4, especially if he drops 10-15 lbs. to get to around 250.  In that role he'd rarely drop into coverage, so wouldn't be the liability some claim...he'd also only be a short-term fix.  We'd also need to find another OLB that while able to rush the QB, will also have the ability to drop into coverage.  For that we would likely use a combo of FA and the draft.  Someone like Anthony Barr in FA and Sweat or Ferguson in the draft would be ideal.  

So, no matter which defense we choose to run, we would need to bring in at least 2-3 starters along depth.

 

[Sub Zero]

3 hours ago, TheMaulClaw said:

You may be right about Luke.  I suppose my understanding of ideal personnel in a 3-4 may be off.  I always thought we'd be looking for a bit bigger inside backers  for a 3-4 but hey look at Sam Mills.  I will say....Clowney had ZERO experience in the 3-4 before he went to Houston....outside of maybe dropping in a flat zone coverage from time to time.  I think what people see in Addison is this...is body type is similar to a Von Miller and some of the other 3-4 OLB pass rushers that have come out recently so it seems like a bit of a natural progression for him.  Also he'd be going against tight ends more the OT's and when he would have to match up against an OT a DT would be on that Tackles inside shoulder so he gets and advantage.  That's how I see it....but you know what they say about opinions.

That is the problem ppl make.. Going by body type instead of skillsets.. If you actually watch both players video.. You can see that Miller types have different ways to get to the QB.. Addison is a undersize 43 DE .. He bulk his body up to hold up to the run so he could be a every down DE.. He doesn't have the lateral movements or back peddle of a 3/4 OLB.. He can't play in pass coverage which is part of the job for Miller and players like him.. Remember Superbowl when he'd drop back and cover Tolbert or run with Olsen? Addison has no chance in doing that.. 

[Sub Zero]

1 hour ago, Woodie said:

We also don't currently have the pieces to run a 4-3.  No matter which scheme we decide to run, we will need to bring in several pieces.

The only 4-3 DE we have is Addison, and he's a huge liability in run defense as he struggles to hold the edge.  We also only have 2 starting level LB's.  So, if we stay as a 4-3, we'll need to find at least one, but likely two DE's, a FA and draft pick that can rush the passer.  And if we hope to improve, they'll need to be better in run defense.  We'll also need to find another LB.  Maybe Carter can handle it, but that's no given.

However, if we go 3-4, we'll need to find a DE (unless they feel Butler can do it, but that's a similar projection to Carter at LB).  Despite what some think, Addison should be able to play the rush LB in a 3-4, especially if he drops 10-15 lbs. to get to around 250.  In that role he'd rarely drop into coverage, so wouldn't be the liability some claim...he'd also only be a short-term fix.  We'd also need to find another OLB that while able to rush the QB, will also have the ability to drop into coverage.  For that we would likely use a combo of FA and the draft.  Someone like Anthony Barr in FA and Sweat or Ferguson in the draft would be ideal.  

So, no matter which defense we choose to run, we would need to bring in at least 2-3 starters along depth.

 

To run the good 4/3 defense we need 2 maybe 3 players .. 2 DE and another LB.. We have depth already at those positions.. 

To run a competent 3/4 we need 3 OlB (starters and backups) 2 DE (a starter and a backup).. 1 ILB .. That's 6 players and we've done nothing to the secondary..

[Sub Zero]

I don't know why ppl think Shaq can play ILB.. He can't take on guards consistantly he runs around them most of the time ... Now that's okay in a 43 playing OLB.. But in the 3/4 he has to take on Olinemen straight up alot.. When has he shown the physicality or mentality to do that??

[Sub Zero]

3 hours ago, AU-panther said:

Could Butler play NT?  they have him listed at 330

 

He's more of a 3 tech.. He doesn't have the strength or mentality to anchor as a NT.. His best chance (like Kk) is 3/4 DE..