2019 Challenge

[bigdog10]

The incredibly frustrating part of this argument is that both sides fail to acknowledge the dark cloud that hung over both hurney and Gettleman (and hell even Polian) heads. Richardson was a cancer to the football side of his business. The contracts passed out after the lockout had his hands all over it just like the Matt kalil contract. 

Unfortunately, none of the gms we’ve ever had have had much of a chance with him in charge. 

Thankfully that black cloud is gone and hopefully we can finally find some sustained success under whoever holds the gm title. 

[WarHeel]

Can’t blame Hurney for strapping our cash with that bogus Matt Kalil contract. We will see what happens.

[MasterAwesome]

53 minutes ago, Peon Awesome said:

This is a child's mentality. Hurney by himself isn't responsible for all the success and failure of this team. It's an incredibly stupid thing to pledge. It's that simplistic black and white mentality that make people ridicule you for your blind devotion to Gettleman. 

Our success is built on roster construction including free agency and drafting, which are things the gm is responsible for, but also the health of the team, coaching, and player execution in games. That's why deciding whether a gm is good or bad purely on the win/loss record is simple-minded and short-sighted. Carolina was on pace to be 12-4 before Cam's shoulder went to hell. Would Hurney be an amazing gm if Cam had stayed healthy but is actually shitty since he got injured? And if ther Panthers go 13-3 this year but Paradis and Williams get injured in week 1 and none of our 2019 draft picks end up being meaningful contributors, do we give Hurney all the credit?

Listen, Hurney and Gettleman have their strengths and weaknesses. It's stupid to belabor this pointless argument.

Well said, my apprentice. I see your time on The Huddle is already starting to make you a bit sassier.

[MasterAwesome]

12 minutes ago, bigdog10 said:

The incredibly frustrating part of this argument is that both sides fail to acknowledge the dark cloud that hung over both hurney and Gettleman (and hell even Polian) heads. Richardson was a cancer to the football side of his business. The contracts passed out after the lockout had his hands all over it just like the Matt kalil contract. 

Unfortunately, none of the gms we’ve ever had have had much of a chance with him in charge. 

Thankfully that black cloud is gone and hopefully we can finally find some sustained success under whoever holds the gm title. 

I’ve brought this up in a couple threads, but the anti-Hurney pro-Gettleman side has yet to address it. I’m willing to accept that JR meddled in both GMs tenures or neither. However, the aforementioned group on these boards like to absolve Gettleman of the Kalil signing at least partially, but in the same breath, denigrate Hurney for his mega contracts.

[Mr. Scot]

21 minutes ago, bigdog10 said:

The incredibly frustrating part of this argument is that both sides fail to acknowledge the dark cloud that hung over both hurney and Gettleman (and hell even Polian) heads. Richardson was a cancer to the football side of his business. The contracts passed out after the lockout had his hands all over it just like the Matt kalil contract. 

Unfortunately, none of the gms we’ve ever had have had much of a chance with him in charge. 

Thankfully that black cloud is gone and hopefully we can finally find some sustained success under whoever holds the gm title. 

I actually haven't seen anybody deny that Jerry Richardson was the ultimate source of most of our problems. Hurney is actually a part of that though.

Richardson rewarded people for being loyal to him rather than being good at their jobs. hence, a lot of people in the organization got promotions they weren't really qualified for (Tina Becker, for example).

So yeah, nobody denies that.

[Mr. Scot]

52 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Scot, I know you say that you aren't a fan of Gettleman, but rather appreciate what he did here.

That being said, there's a lot of overlap between what Hurney did here in his first tenure, what Gettleman did during his, and now what Hurney is doing in his second tenure.  I'm not a "fan" of any executive over the team itself, but rather a fan of their successes.  The whole Gettleman vs Hurney debate has so many variables that I honestly don't know how anyone could attribute the entire outcome of a season to one of them at this point.

Being objective, Gettleman achieved success by building a whole roster, but again, Hurney's guys were the heavy lifters.  It could also be argued Gettleman took unnecessary steps back instead of building on strengths several times to the point that it set us back as a franchise.  And yet, everyone wants to attribute his successes solely to his efforts.

Hurney meanwhile is not ever given sole credit for the draft selections he made and guys he acquired otherwise during his first tenure.  Yet he is constantly solely blamed for the "cap hell" he created with the money giveaway after the lockout...  it's as if people don't realize JR was a businessman and micromanaged everything during that period and saw it as a PR-win.  It's arguable the only bad contract Hurney has given out in this second tenure is Poe's, but that could still be salvaged...  but, he's still viewed as an idiot that couldnt win the first time around, and again, it is ignored that JR oversaw EVERYTHING then.

So, now here we are...  new owner, Hurney seems to be making some great moves.  Surprising even.  So, now, you're asking are we ready to lay the season's outcomes solely at his feet?  I don't know.  I think he'll deserve most of the credit or blame, but it can't be discounted that he has had to take two years rebuilding a lot of what Gettleman destroyed on his ego-trip towards the end...  The secondary still has to be fixed years after the Norman fiasco, but we're a lot closer to that than we were.  The OL is just now getting shored up, but that took years as well.  And WR is finally looking like a strength for the first time since Smitty and Moose.  And yet, we desperately need help in the front seven, and have to work around KK's contract and subpar production. 

So, I will hedge and say, Marty will be responsible for the majority of the season outcome, but not all...  much like I don't feel Gettleman was responsible for all of the successes during his tenure.

Also, wanted to throw this out there...  I saw Diane Russini on a Podcast yesterday, I believe...  and they were discussing NYG, and she said in regards to Gettleman, "you have to remember, he comes from a scout's background.  So he likes HIS players.  He likes the idea of discovering a talent and developing them from scratch."  Which I believe is often to his detriment.  And again, I'm not a Marty fan, per se, but I am a fan of his success.  He might not be the meat and potatoes/hardened scout that Gettleman is, and he might not have the background of Gettleman...  but, I believe he has a great eye for talent and is far better the second time around (without JR) than the first.  And yes, I acknowledge our greatest string of seasons and winning was under Gettleman, but I will not solely attribute that to him either.

I just hope we stay healthy this year, especially Cam...  and if we can, I expect a successful year based off what we've done so far.

I can agree to a point, but not very far.

Once you've had control of a team roster for a full offseason, it's yours. The only real mix situation was 2017, but even there all the leg work was done by one man and somebody else came in afterward.

Granted, not his fault. Jerry Richardson's stupid fault, but that doesn't really change the situation much.

But as I said, biggest thing I see now is people trying to hedge their bets and change their stories depending on how things come out. Hence, why I say commit now, no excuses.

As mentioned, the genesis of this was that somebody asked me to do this last year. They did so figuring they'd tricked me into saying something good about Marty once we had a good season. We didn't, but I didn't agree to it because I believe we'd have a bad season.

I agreed to it because that's how it is.

[Palmetto]

Gettleman should have been fired

Hurney shouldn't have been rehired

Panthers need a 3rd option real soon

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Palmetto said:

Gettleman should have been fired

Hurney shouldn't have been rehired

Panthers need a 3rd option real soon

Disagree on Gettleman, but agree a change would be for the best.

Joe Douglas would be my top choice, but wouldn't mind taking another look at Lake Dawson (give him an actual interview instead of that embarrassing sham last time).

My pipe dream is Kevin Colbert. His contract expires after this season, but I have a hard time imagining the Steelers will let him walk.

[Palmetto]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Disagree on Gettleman, but agree a change would be for the best.

Joe Douglas would be my top choice, but wouldn't mind taking another look at Lake Dawson (give him an actual interview instead of that embarrassing sham last time).

My pipe dream is Kevin Colbert. His contract expires after this season, but I have a hard time imagining the Steelers will let him walk.

Gettleman seems to make a lot of off scripted moves

Trying to out smart everyone he seems to out smart himself

[MasterAwesome]

I’ll explain why this is a stupid thread. He took a very minor talking point from one or two people about how Hurney was responsible for the 2017 roster over Gettleman...which inspired the creation of this asinine challenge for the upcoming season...then wants to somehow treat its outcome as proof that Gettleman or Hurney is the better GM. All I’ve ever said was that Gettleman was a below average GM and he had a pretty big part in hampering our long-term success with many poor draft selections, including 3 consecutive first round picks with very minor contributions. If I bring up Hurney at all, it’s to expose a double standard. If you can explain to me how this challenge has anything at all to do with my argument, then sign me up. Not from Mr. Scot though...he dodges my questions like he’s got bone spurs. Otherwise, I’m gonna see this challenge as a sad attempt for an extremely insecure man to feel temporarily validated.

But let’s go ahead and humor this bet or “challenge” or whatever. Any bet requires clear cut standards for what constitutes a win or a loss...the closest thing he’s laid out to an objective qualifier is saying that he’ll give Hurney credit if we go to the Super Bowl. Wow...what a ballsy statement. Otherwise, it’s “if we do bad, it’s Hurney’s fault”. What does that even mean exactly? Losing record? Not making playoffs? Do key injuries matter? Poor coaching? What a half-assed, poorly thought out “challenge”...no one even knows what we’re supposed to be agreeing to. If the terms are simply that I’m not gonna blame Gettleman for this season’s potential failures...then yeah obviously I’ll sign up for that. I have always only blamed Gettleman for the actions that he was directly responsible for, like his overall poor drafting, his ego having a huge role in ruining our Super Bowl team, the Kalil signing, etc.

[Moo Daeng]

Mister Drama's Gettleman crush is beyond creepy. 

So impressive he is willing to out his name next to something that has no consequences either way for him.

 

[Moo Daeng]

This dude needs a break from the internet. I actually feel sorry for him reading this. 

[Sub Zero]

1 minute ago, Moo Daeng said:

Mister Drama's Gettleman crush is beyond creepy. And 

So impressive he is willing to out his name next to something that has no consequences either way for him.

 

Yes this!!

Let's say Hurney sucks.. As he did near the end of his 1st term here.. Other than "real" Panthers fans suffering because we want our team to win no matter who the GM is.  What is the benefit for Scot on this??

Is it going to make Gettelmen the GM of the Panthers again??

Will that change the fact that both Gettelmen nor Hurney have back to back winning seasons as GM of teams so both should be seen as avg or below avg??

Will we have a petition here to get Gettelmen a statue in front of the stadium??

NOOOOOOOO!

So what is the point in being this much of a prick??

[Moo Daeng]

5 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

Yes this!!

Let's say Hurney sucks.. As he did near the end of his 1st term here.. Other than "real" Panthers fans suffering because we want our team to win no matter who the GM is.  What is the benefit for Scot on this??

Is it going to make Gettelmen the GM of the Panthers again??

Will that change the fact that both Gettelmen nor Hurney have back to back winning seasons as GM of teams so both should be seen as avg or below avg??

Will we have a petition here to get Gettelmen a statue in front of the stadium??

NOOOOOOOO!

So what is the point in being this much of a prick??

I have no idea. The poor guy isnt exactly a logical thinker if you've read his posts over the years. This is a new low.

I said the other day he would be upset that the team appears to have made some sound decisions the last month.