Derek Anderson , Damian Lewis talks about Cam

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm saying winning seasons are hard to come by when Marty Hurney is in charge.

That's not a coincidence.

I don't think we are lacking for talent, for the most part. Coaching we seem to be lacking. 

[Mr. Scot]

33 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, trust me, I think Little is a lost cause. Not sure Moton is the answer. 

One thing we can both expect, changes won't happen.

I know for the very small window of time that Taylor Moton was allowed to play left tackle, he looked pretty good doing it.

For whatever reason, it seems like Ron Rivera is prepared to fight to his last breath to prevent Taylor Moton from ever playing left tackle again.

 

31 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't think we are lacking for talent, for the most part. Coaching we seem to be lacking. 

How good a coach was Rivera when Dave Gettleman was in charge?

How many winning seasons did we have when Marty Hurney was working with John Fox?

And as has been asked many times, how many other teams have inquired about Marty Hurney's services? And not just as a GM, but as a scout, a personnel guy, a salary cap manager, anything?

The vast majority of Hurney's successful seasons came at times when the Panthers roster still had a significant influence from his predecessors. The longer he was in charge, and the more of his own stamp that he was able to put on the team, the worse we got (and the deeper into cap hell we get while not having any trophies to show for it).

Yeah, he might make the occasional good draft pick, good signing or trade, but you have to look at the overall product. And the overall product hasn't been good enough.

Marty Hurney just isn't qualified to be an NFL GM. He never was.

It's time to get a real GM.

[beastson]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm saying winning seasons are hard to come by when Marty Hurney is in charge.

That's not a coincidence.

Maybe this organization should be put more emphasis hiring a better HC. They hired a coach nobody else would hire. Bill Belichick went 11-5 without Brady.

 

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, beastson said:

Maybe this organization should be put more emphasis hiring a better HC. They hired a coach nobody else would hire. Bill Belichick went 11-5 without Brady.

Who hired our current head coach?

And the previous one?

You really want that guy hiring the next one?

[beastson]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Who hired our current head coach?

(and the previous one)

Jerry Richardson.

I want to go back to my last question though. Is other teams rosters better than ours? Is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers roster better than ours?

[Captain Obvious]

blah, blah, blah, blah

 

Just win for fugs sake.

Start with one. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, beastson said:

Jerry Richardson.

I want to go back to my last question though. Is other teams rosters better than ours? Is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers roster better than ours?

Uuuhhh, no. That would be Marty Hurney. Jerry Richardson only approved the decisions. Add in that Jerry Richardson wanted to fire Ron Rivera and Marty Hurney stopped him.

As to our roster, it has some definite weak points. We went into this season depending on older guys (Greg Olsen), guys who were coming off of injury (Matt Paradis) and guys who had lousy seasons (Dontari Poe) at important spots. Throw in that we very easily could have made an offer to a veteran backup quarterback like Josh McCown, but we chose instead to go with Kyle Allen. Plus there's dumbass decisions like going with Torrey Smith. Oh, and the whole Graham Gano / Harrison Butker thing.

Face it, dude. Hurney just isn't good enough. 

[SetfreexX]

1 hour ago, mc52beast said:

Former b/u qb Derek Anderson and d lineman Damian Lewis were interviewed on WFNZ,;

Said only idiots judge Cam on what he wears

Said his sprain is still bothering him, one reason why he isn’t running. Could be mid season before he can run effectively.

Said his shoulder is probably fine, just needs to get time with his weapons and get comfortable in the pocket

Said it’s not Cam’s fault that the o-line is allowing so much pressure

Said Darryl Williams need to be moved, start Greg Little

Said Hurney, Ron and others will lose their jobs if things don’t turn around

All of that is what I personally think as well, to this day I have no idea why we moved a mauling RT to LT (Williams) and kept the more athletic tackle (Moton) at RT. 

Beyond that, as bad as Kalil was if not for injury he'd have started over Moton at LT, Darryl would've remained the RT and another good player (Moton) would be wasting time on the bench. 

We thought enough of Littler to make him a top 40 pick, I know damn well he has to be as good as Williams at LT, and Williams has to be better inside over GVR. 

I'm not a professional and don't claim to be, but IMO it just seems like we miss the common sense moves to honor veteran experience, or ''earning'' a starting spot. IMO if you are a top 40 player you need to be starting so we get the most out of that investment. 

I can't speak for playbook knowledge, etc. but damn it just seems like year after year we have better young talent available that never sees the field until a veteran either falls off a cliff production wise, or gets hurt. 

Same thing with Jackson, he was behind Cockrell util the injury, and yes he's inconsistent and from a rookie / now sophomore that is to be expected, but his talent usurps the lack of experience, and PRACTICE is not experience. We have enough vets around to play a rookie here and there, all of the OL are seasoned veterans, no reason not to start little, hell we traded up for him, why is he sitting (aside from the concussion protocol) if memory serves he was available for TNF. 

[kungfoodude]

39 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I know for the very small window of time that Taylor Moton was allowed to play left tackle, he looked pretty good doing it.

For whatever reason, it seems like Ron Rivera is prepared to fight to his last breath to prevent Taylor Moton from ever playing left tackle again.

We have no reason not to try it, IMO. We will likely never know their logic or reasoning as to why. From a fan's perspective, it seems like an obvious way to try SOMETHING....ANYTHING. But coaches rarely operate that way. It's just hard to generally trust our coaching staff when it comes to judgement like that anymore.

Quote

How good a coach was Rivera when Dave Gettleman was in charge?

How many winning seasons did we have when Marty Hurney was working with John Fox?

And as has been asked many times, how many other teams have inquired about Marty Hurney's services? And not just as a GM, but as a scout, a personnel guy, a salary cap manager, anything?

The vast majority of Hurney's successful seasons came at times when the Panthers roster still had a significant influence from his predecessors. The longer he was in charge, and the more of his own stamp that he was able to put on the team, the worse we got (and the deeper into cap hell we get while not having any trophies to show for it).

Yeah, he might make the occasional good draft pick, good signing or trade, but you have to look at the overall product. And the overall product hasn't been good enough.

Marty Hurney just isn't qualified to be an NFL GM. He never was.

It's time to get a real GM.

Yeah, I know your theory on the GM and their impact but I just don't agree that they have such a game-to-game impact that you think that they do. GM's can be just like head coaches, impacted heavily by the talent on the field, the stability of the franchises and performances of their coaching staffs. I don't have significant faults with the overall roster talent. I think we have definitely made some upgrades in that regard since our last GM left us, but we still seem to have some of the glaring roster holes that have marked the Ron Rivera era in general. 

Let's be completely honest, the biggest factor keeping us from being successful at the moment is absolutely the QB. This team has been built for years around Cam Newton and while he remains a one dimensional QB with obvious rust/performance issues, that will make us struggle no matter who was the GM. I can skewer Marty for making what IMO was a boneheaded pick in Will Grier but that was still an attempt to cheaply fix an obvious issue with the backup QB, so what can you really say other than you disagree with his talent evaluation? Would be be in substantially better shape with Finley or some of the other QB's in that range? Time will tell. 

A real GM, if he landed on this team tomorrow wouldn't help. Potentially a "real" coaching staff arriving tomorrow probably wouldn't help. We banked heavily on Cam being Cam, and it just hasn't happened. We all knew this was coming. We had alluded to it the entire offseason. The team has been built to go as Cam Newton goes, and that extends across multiple GM's.

[JARROD]

I said and many said last season after 2 surgery years etc that Cam really needed another season to get back into football shape and come back.

he probably pushed to play and it’s the end of his contract so of course the staff needs to get what they need from him...

i think ambition and the need to win of course pushed him back too quickly.

we needed another viable option at quarterback this season, even a one year rental(not a Will Grier)

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, JARROD said:

I said and many said last season after 2 surgery years etc that Cam really needed another season to get back into football shape and come back.

he probably pushed to play and it’s the end of his contract so of course the staff needs to get what they need from him...

i think ambition and the need to win of course pushed him back too quickly.

we needed another viable option at quarterback this season, even a one year rental(not a Will Grier)

Yeah, I think everyone from the fans to the owner was operating under the "wishes and hopes" that Cam would magically be prime Cam again. It just hasn't happened. For all the doom and gloom, it could still potentially happen. Having this ankle injury definitely doesn't help. 

I think one thing can be said without question. Regardless of coaching situation, GM situation, owner situation, or whatever; if Cam continues to play this way all season and we DON'T have a serious replacement in place by opening day of 2020, that will be completely inexcusable. 

[Mr. Scot]

16 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

We have no reason not to try it, IMO. We will likely never know their logic or reasoning as to why. From a fan's perspective, it seems like an obvious way to try SOMETHING....ANYTHING. But coaches rarely operate that way. It's just hard to generally trust our coaching staff when it comes to judgement like that anymore.

Yeah, I know your theory on the GM and their impact but I just don't agree that they have such a game-to-game impact that you think that they do. GM's can be just like head coaches, impacted heavily by the talent on the field, the stability of the franchises and performances of their coaching staffs. I don't have significant faults with the overall roster talent. I think we have definitely made some upgrades in that regard since our last GM left us, but we still seem to have some of the glaring roster holes that have marked the Ron Rivera era in general. 

Let's be completely honest, the biggest factor keeping us from being successful at the moment is absolutely the QB. This team has been built for years around Cam Newton and while he remains a one dimensional QB with obvious rust/performance issues, that will make us struggle no matter who was the GM. I can skewer Marty for making what IMO was a boneheaded pick in Will Grier but that was still an attempt to cheaply fix an obvious issue with the backup QB, so what can you really say other than you disagree with his talent evaluation? Would be be in substantially better shape with Finley or some of the other QB's in that range? Time will tell. 

A real GM, if he landed on this team tomorrow wouldn't help. Potentially a "real" coaching staff arriving tomorrow probably wouldn't help. We banked heavily on Cam being Cam, and it just hasn't happened. We all knew this was coming. We had alluded to it the entire offseason. The team has been built to go as Cam Newton goes, and that extends across multiple GM's.

Rivera is the same guy who thought Amini Silatolu gave us a better chance to win than Andrew Norwell until he was forced to make a change due to injury. That's just one of a number of questionable personnel decisions he's made.

As far as trusting Rivera when it comes to the depth chart, he's never done enough to earn that trust, and I don't believe he ever will. That's just not in his skill set.

As to the GM, we're not talking about a game to game impact here. You can't change GM's in the middle of a season and expect improvement. By the time the season has started, the GM's work is mostly done.

But do they affect the quality of the team? Absolutely.

Just like before, the team has trended downward since Marty Hurney took over. You can blame other factors, just as I'm sure you could go back and look at his original GM stint and try to find excuses there too.

What you can't do though, is look at his body of work (even the supposed 2.0 version) and say "this man knows how to build a successful football team". Pick out individual moves that you like all you want, but the big picture is the only thing that matters.

Marty Hurney's "big picture" looks like a finger painting by a first grader.

[JARROD]

Ron is a great DC, he’s just not a head coach. 

[Darvinsun]

13 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

We have no reason not to try it, IMO. We will likely never know their logic or reasoning as to why. From a fan's perspective, it seems like an obvious way to try SOMETHING....ANYTHING. But coaches rarely operate that way. It's just hard to generally trust our coaching staff when it comes to judgement like that anymore.

Yeah, I know your theory on the GM and their impact but I just don't agree that they have such a game-to-game impact that you think that they do. GM's can be just like head coaches, impacted heavily by the talent on the field, the stability of the franchises and performances of their coaching staffs. I don't have significant faults with the overall roster talent. I think we have definitely made some upgrades in that regard since our last GM left us, but we still seem to have some of the glaring roster holes that have marked the Ron Rivera era in general. 

Let's be completely honest, the biggest factor keeping us from being successful at the moment is absolutely the QB. This team has been built for years around Cam Newton and while he remains a one dimensional QB with obvious rust/performance issues, that will make us struggle no matter who was the GM. I can skewer Marty for making what IMO was a boneheaded pick in Will Grier but that was still an attempt to cheaply fix an obvious issue with the backup QB, so what can you really say other than you disagree with his talent evaluation? Would be be in substantially better shape with Finley or some of the other QB's in that range? Time will tell. 

A real GM, if he landed on this team tomorrow wouldn't help. Potentially a "real" coaching staff arriving tomorrow probably wouldn't help. We banked heavily on Cam being Cam, and it just hasn't happened. We all knew this was coming. We had alluded to it the entire offseason. The team has been built to go as Cam Newton goes, and that extends across multiple GM's.

This team has never been built around Cam . It's been built around defense philosophy of Ron. Cam has just had to work with what they gave him and make it work. He is in recovery mode now and can no longer be Superman. Make up for all his flaws, coaching flaws, offensive line flaws, and defense flaws. Now the team is somewhat ok he isn't. This team has the worst timing in all of football.