The Offensive Line Situation

[MHS831]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'll be honest with you. After two concussions in a very short span, I'm scared to see the kid go out there again.

Me too--that is the main reason I was suggesting a move to G--not sure he would be better off there, but sometimes freak bad luck happens.  Luke is a LB and he has had multiple concussions.  I had 6 when I played and I turned out just... squirrel!!!

[panthers55]

6 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

But in this case they are.  Hurney hired Ron and refused to fire  him when he was tasked to do it previously.  If anything Ron proved he could do better without Hurney as he did under what has been described by the crowd on here as the worst GM we ever had.  How do you reconcile that?

It won't be up to Hurney it will be Tepper's call. He is the owner and Hurney works for him. The idea that owners stay completely separate from football decisions is totally untrue. 

As for your worse GM agenda, that was then, this is now. What happened a decade ago has no relevance to today.

[Jon Snow]

12 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

It won't be up to Hurney it will be Tepper's call. He is the owner and Hurney works for him. The idea that owners stay completely separate from football decisions is totally untrue. 

As for your worse GM agenda, that was then, this is now. What happened a decade ago has no relevance to today.

Agenda?  I'm referring to the GM that held the seat until Hurney weaseled his way back in.  The only other GM to serve with Ron.  That's the GM that Ron produced better under.  You know, the one the couldn't draft and hurt people's feelings?  I have no love for that guy either but somehow Ron was able to overcome Dave's ineptitude and produce more wins and dominant the division over his short stint.  How is that my agenda?  I'm just pointing the obvious conundrum of reconciling how Ron can produce with such substandard GM support but can't do the same with an exceptional GM as Hurney.  Maybe it's because as I have said many times, Hurney is cursed and is no more of a competent team builder than you or I?

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Agenda?  I'm referring to the GM that held the seat until Hurney weaseled his way back in.  The only other GM to serve with Ron.  That's the GM that Ron produced better under.  You know, the one the couldn't draft and hurt people's feelings?  I have no love for that guy either but somehow Ron was able to overcome Dave's ineptitude and produce more wins and dominant the division over his short stint.  How is that my agenda?  I'm just pointing the obvious conundrum of reconciling how Ron can produce with such substandard GM support but can't do the same with an exceptional GM as Hurney.  Maybe it's because as I have said many times, Hurney is cursed and is no more of a competent team builder than you or I?

Is it really that hard to figure out. Then we had Cam which we relied heavy on. Now we don't. Imagine a healthy Cam with this roster. Hell I bet I could coach them to 8-8.

Hurney worked hard to give Cam more weapons and increase the depth. It isn't his fault Cam broke down with injuries. Your whole debate seems convoluted with you reaching for straws to further your agenda 

[Jon Snow]

5 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Is it really that hard to figure out. Then we had Cam which we relied heavy on. Now we don't. Imagine a healthy Cam with this roster. Hell I bet I could coach them to 8-8.

Hurney worked hard to give Cam more weapons and increase the depth. It isn't his fault Cam broke down with injuries. Your whole debate seems convoluted with you reaching for straws to further your agenda 

So what is my agenda?  You want to know my real agenda? 

My agenda is to have a better FO, coaching staff and team that will bring the Lombardi trophy home to the Carolinas and to wipe that smug grin off Shaun Peyton's face.

Yours seem to be maintaining the status quo. On that I'll pass.

Oh and one last thing.  The best weapon and player on the team didn't come from Hurney.  

[mc52beast]

The fact that we actually have a couple promising young linemen says a lot. This front office has neglected the o-line for years and should take full responsibility for Cam’s decline. 

[panthers55]

6 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

So what is my agenda?  You want to know my real agenda? 

My agenda is to have a better FO, coaching staff and team that will bring the Lombardi trophy home to the Carolinas and to wipe that smug grin off Shaun Peyton's face.

Yours seem to be maintaining the status quo. On that I'll pass.

Oh and one last thing.  The best weapon and player on the team didn't come from Hurney.  

And you assume that is easily done and just canning everyone will instantly produce better results. How naive. 

You think that is what most every team wants to do yet 31 don't do it every year? And you think anyone who doesn't subscribe to the blow it up theory wants mediocrity. Again how naive.  

And BTW our best weapon did.  Newton. And on defense our best weapon is Luke again a Hurney acquisition.  

[Jon Snow]

12 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

And you assume that is easily done and just canning everyone will instantly produce better results. How naive. 

You think that is what most every team wants to do yet 31 don't do it every year? And you think anyone who doesn't subscribe to the blow it up theory wants mediocrity. Again how naive.  

And BTW our best weapon did.  Newton. And on defense our best weapon is Luke again a Hurney acquisition.  

And none of that has produced a damn thing.  You change nothing if you refuse to change anything.   We've tried it your and Hurney's way long enough.  It's time someone else give it a try.  Mediocrity will forever be etched in the pillars of BOA until all remaining vestiges of the past are wiped clean.  Hopefully the new boss lives up to his brass balls reputation and gets this team out of this rut.  I chose to have higher expectations for the franchise than well it could be worse.  Wish more fans felt that way but alas most seem too scared to take on the challenge for fear of failure.  Kind of ironic as this team has failed miserably at all levels.

[BrianS]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

So Hurney drafting Daley was luck?  And Hurney has been back for 2 years and done well. What happened a decade ago with a different owner will have no impact on Tepper's decision about Hurney.  You might still be pissed but Tepper will base it on the now not ancient history.

I agree.  You can only look at what he's done since he's been back, and frankly, the last two drafts have been pretty good.  Of the fifteen players drafted those two years, 13 of them have been on our game day roster at least once this year.  The other two are Terry Godwin, who is on Jacksonville's practice squad and Ken Norton Jr, who was on the Dolphins active roster until his tragic injury.

 

[panthers55]

56 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

And none of that has produced a damn thing.  You change nothing if you refuse to change anything.   We've tried it your and Hurney's way long enough.  It's time someone else give it a try.  Mediocrity will forever be etched in the pillars of BOA until all remaining vestiges of the past are wiped clean.  Hopefully the new boss lives up to his brass balls reputation and gets this team out of this rut.  I chose to have higher expectations for the franchise than well it could be worse.  Wish more fans felt that way but alas most seem too scared to take on the challenge for fear of failure.  Kind of ironic as this team has failed miserably at all levels.

Get off your high horse before you fall off and hurt yourself  the whole I hold us to a higher standard is BS. Everyone wants to win and so do Panther fans. We aren't Cleveland or Tampa or many of the franchises who blew it up only to have consistently poor results.  This franchise has not failed in all levels. That kind of thinking is hyperbole at its best. But obviously your mind is made up so no use in trying to impact it positively. Feel free to wallow in your angst and negative perceptions. I am enjoying this year and hoping for the best. As you say when it is all said and done we will see where the chips fall 

[PghPanther]

Finally a thread about the true struggle for all NFL teams and especially this one..................draft for the best oline you can find and more importantly for depth. Hell, linemen risk getting rolled up on every play. You have to have depth for the NFL season.

Everybody talks and notices skill positions..............while the online is the key.

Move the chains consistently and you win games..............even with an average QB game manager............well maybe not with Jimmy Clawsen but you get the idea.

[MHS831]

3 hours ago, panthers55 said:

It won't be up to Hurney it will be Tepper's call. He is the owner and Hurney works for him. The idea that owners stay completely separate from football decisions is totally untrue. 

As for your worse GM agenda, that was then, this is now. What happened a decade ago has no relevance to today.

I get the feeling that Tepper will be more involved (on the surface) than JR was (under the table).  And it pains me to say this--Hurney has done OK---even if Little busts.  Little was a need pick and there was a run on tackles in the first round that nobody saw coming.  But the drafts have been solid and he did well in free agency.  I think his weakness was (in the past) loyalty to players, overpaying his own picks/Panther players to stay.  I have not seen that this year.  How he handles Cam, Bradberry, and Shaq is going to be a huge tell.

[MHS831]

4 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Right side of the line is solid.  Resign Moton.  Not opposed to finding a prospect to groom behind Turner because of his contract though.

Center needs a prospect to groom with Larsen being shot.  Probably day 2 of the draft.

LG - I'd stick Daley in there if Van Roten can't be retained on the cheap.

LT - Little is the best one on the roster but if there is concern about his head I'd draft another OT early.  If there isn't I'd still draft another one but can then make a case for waiting in the draft.

This is reasonable and very possible.

[MHS831]

9 minutes ago, stbugs said:

A waste might have been a bit strong, but I hated that trade up. I honestly think we could have sat at 47 and gotten him no problem. The other OL that went in between were really interior OL.

It’s more about this year. Daley is a gem, we got lucky, but if we resign Moton then Little is riding the pine. His worst asset is his strength and run blocking. He’s sort of the anti-guard and I don’t recall anywhere seeing him as a potential guard. That’s more my frustration thinking that where we are now, we could have had so many other solid contributors and Daley. It’s hindsight, so hopefully he gets out of the protocol and actually plays well. 

I saw it--but not sure where and not often--could have been a fluke or bad site.   Hoping this thing works out--we'd be in good shape.

Draft network: Greg Little projects as a boom or bust prospect at the NFL level

I think I got his write ups confused with Cody Ford---by the way--I have been looking to see where I got this thought, and I do not see it either.  Good call.