Defending Rivera

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, SBiii said:

That's absolutely total bullsh*t.

Funny you should say you only trust "local" press to report accurate info on Panthers but you're gonna cite some complete B.S. coffee filter story by some reporter you couldn't name in a 100 years without the benefit of 15 minutes out on Al Gore's internets....

Terrible take on your part, you're better than that.

That story was in an extensive profile of David Tepper that appeared in the New Yorker magazine. Tepper himself was interviewed for it along with several of his friends and employees.

He doesn't deny any of that stuff. He's actually kind of proud of it.

[Seltzer]

Today was totally different that the Steelers last year or the SF game.  We didn't get embarrassed by any stretch.

That being said, the defense is on Ron, and not only is the run defense arguably the biggest reason we lost today, it has been a problem all year with no signs of getting better.

Tepper certainly isn't going to do anything during the season, but I still think he is leaning more towards playoffs or bust.

And with Cam seeming to be moving on, it would be the logical time to start fresh with a new coach also.

I personally still believe Ron is a much better coach than many on this board think he is.  He is very respected around a cutthroat league that has no problem calling out coaches they think are in over their heads (i.e. Freddie Kitchens, etc).  He will have a good job next year regardless, and maybe even a HC one if he's fired here.

Even though our fanbase and potentially our owner is not going to give Rivera a pass, the league in general is going to look at what he has done with a backup QB favorably.  Objectively speaking, you would expect a team to fall apart going from a franchise QB like Newton to an undrafted backup.  31 other potential employers are not going to bury him for that, regardless of the Rivera sucks crowd here.

However, 9 years is a long tenure in the NFL, even for good coaches.  Generally, only SB winning coaches get longer.

Even good coaches have messages that get old.  That might be getting to be the case with Rivera.

That being said, I'm all-in on this year.  I still hope we make the playoffs although it will be tough.  The team certainly doesn't suck this year, even with a backup, and even in a super tough NFC.  That says something for Rivera, even if we as a fanbase want to take the contrarian view on it b/c we've lived Rivera for the past 9 years and can spot every wart he has.  

TL;DR- Most Panther fans are done with defending Rivera.  31 other teams will probably look favorably on what we has done with a backup QB this year.

[Mr. Scot]

While we're at it...

Anybody got a theory as to why we signed a return man, saw him play decently last week and then chose to deactivate  him for this game? 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Seltzer said:

Today was totally different that the Steelers last year or the SF game.  We didn't get embarrassed by any stretch.

That being said, the defense is on Ron, and not only is the run defense arguably the biggest reason we lost today, it has been a problem all year with no signs of getting better.

Tepper certainly isn't going to do anything during the season, but I still think he is leaning more towards playoffs or bust.

And with Cam seeming to be moving on, it would be the logical time to start fresh with a new coach also.

I personally still believe Ron is a much better coach than many on this board think he is.  He is very respected around a cutthroat league that has no problem calling out coaches they think are in over their heads (i.e. Freddie Kitchens, etc).  He will have a good job next year regardless, and maybe even a HC one if he's fired here.

Even though our fanbase and potentially our owner is not going to give Rivera a pass, the league in general is going to look at what he has done with a backup QB favorably.  Objectively speaking, you would expect a team to fall apart going from a franchise QB like Newton to an undrafted backup.  31 other potential employers are not going to bury him for that, regardless of the Rivera sucks crowd here.

However, 9 years is a long tenure in the NFL, even for good coaches.  Generally, only SB winning coaches get longer.

Even good coaches have messages that get old.  That might be getting to be the case with Rivera.

That being said, I'm all-in on this year.  I still hope we make the playoffs although it will be tough.  The team certainly doesn't suck this year, even with a backup, and even in a super tough NFC.  That says something for Rivera, even if we as a fanbase want to take the contrarian view on it b/c we've lived Rivera for the past 9 years and can spot every wart he has.  

TL;DR- Most Panther fans are done with defending Rivera.  31 other teams will probably look favorably on what we has done with a backup QB this year.

Ron may indeed have the potential to be a good head coach, but if that happens I really don't see it happening here.

I think his effectiveness here has run its course.

[1of10Charnatives]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

While we're at it...

Anybody got a theory as to why we signed a return man, saw him play decently last week and then chose to deactivate  him for this game? 

Didn't trust a new guy to do returns in what we knew would likely be bad weather conditions? Ron's ass being on the line this year likely felt more comfortable putting DJ back there, especially since we fired the last guy for fumbling. It's not a great theory, but you asked for one, and this is what I got on short notice. 

Take it or leave it.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Didn't trust a new guy to do returns in what we knew would likely be bad weather conditions? Ron's ass being on the line this year likely felt more comfortable putting DJ back there, especially since we fired the last guy for fumbling. It's not a great theory, but you asked for one, and this is what I got on short notice. 

Take it or leave it.

Why'd we put DeAndrew White back there though?

[Seltzer]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Ron may indeed have the potential to be a good head coach, but if that happens I really don't see it happening here.

I think his effectiveness here has run its course.

I think that is the biggest thing, and that's not a damning indictment of Rivera as a coach.  Nine years is a long time.

Somebody recently posted a graphic about how every Head Coach/QB combo who had won a SB together at least won their first SB together within 5 years.  

And in fairness, Rivera & Newton came close in Year 5.  But it certainly doesn't seem like these two will ever get the chance again together.

Again, if Cam moves on this offseason, it certainly seems like the logical time to part ways with Rivera.

Regardless, Rivera has had a good tenure here.  I would also disagree that Rivera has not been a good coach here at times.  He took a team to the Super Bowl.  He was elected Coach of the Year twice by his peers.  He's had teams that have won 11, 12, and 15 games in the regular season.  Bad coaches don't accomplish that.

[1of10Charnatives]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Why'd we put DeAndrew White back there though?

*shrugs*

You know what I know. With your football background, probably more. I gots nuffin.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

*shrugs*

You know what I know. With your football background, probably more. I gots nuffin.

I don't either.

Really didn't make any sense to me.

[SBiii]

28 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That story was in an extensive profile of David Tepper that appeared in the New Yorker magazine. Tepper himself was interviewed for it along with several of his friends and employees.

He doesn't deny any of that stuff. He's actually kind of proud of it.

Absolute horsesh*t.

Said story was the one your beloved local press used to tar & feather Big Tepp for months by using the brass balls and purported (yet untrue) fake breast throwing to pigeonhole him as a misogynist carpet bagging hedge-funder Goldman alum....your butt-buddies just sh*t all over Tepper during the time he was acquiring the team.

This "proud of it" nonsense it total #FakeNews on your part, stop making stuff up man....you're better than that. 

There is NFW Mr. David Tepper has any idea how much a "coffee filter" costs....pitiful take on your part.

[1of10Charnatives]

3 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

I think that is the biggest thing, and that's not a damning indictment of Rivera as a coach.  Nine years is a long time.

Somebody recently posted a graphic about how every Head Coach/QB combo who had won a SB together at least won their first SB together within 5 years.  

And in fairness, Rivera & Newton came close in Year 5.  But it certainly doesn't seem like these two will ever get the chance again together.

Again, if Cam moves on this offseason, it certainly seems like the logical time to part ways with Rivera.

Regardless, Rivera has had a good tenure here.  I would also disagree that Rivera has not been a good coach here at times.  He took a team to the Super Bowl.  He was elected Coach of the Year twice by his peers.  He's had teams that have won 11, 12, and 15 games in the regular season.  Bad coaches don't accomplish that.

I mostly agree with you, except that I find Rivera to be about average. He is not a bad NFL HC, but he is nothing special. He goes to the playoffs about a third of the time, which is average, and while he has a Super Bowl and the respect of his peers, I'm underwhelmed he has been unable to do more considering what he has been given to work with. I think he creates a good locker room atmosphere and his teams played mostly disciplined ball in that we tend not to accrue as many penalties as most teams. I do not think he is very creative or adjusts well to his opponent or opponent's game plan. 

I think it's time for a change of scenery for him and a different coaching regime for us.

[SBiii]

1 minute ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

I mostly agree with you, except that I find Rivera to be about average. He is not a bad NFL HC, but he is nothing special. He goes to the playoffs about a third of the time, which is average, and while he has a Super Bowl and the respect of his peers, I'm underwhelmed he has been unable to do more considering what he has been given to work with. I think he creates a good locker room atmosphere and his teams played mostly disciplined ball in that we tend not to accrue as many penalties as most teams. I do not think he is very creative or adjusts well to his opponent or opponent's game plan. 

I think it's time for a change of scenery for him and a different coaching regime for us.

Riverboat is a 2-time MVP.

MVP awards are the gold standard here.....'Boat ain't going anywhere.

[GoPanthers123]

I always thought 20 points is magic number of how much D can give up for us to be in position to win it.  That run D is main issue at the moment.

[raleigh-panther]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

It was reported that team owner David Tepper was "livid" after the San Francisco game. This game wasn't the kind of humiliating blowout that game was, but the defense in this game was pretty terrible as well.

It's possible Rivera might have been able to survive one performance like that, but two horrible defensive showings within a few weeks of each other? I've got a feeling that proverbial seat is getting mighty warm.

Still, I know there are people who are fans. I've said elsewhere that I'm a fan of Rivera the person. Rivera the coach? Not so much.

But if you feel differently, I'll give you the chance to speak your mind here.

Defend keeping Rivera, if you can.

Mr Scott.  Who reported Tepper was livid?

mind you he should have been