The Underperformers: WR Corps

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Car123 said:

We used him better last season. Where are all the creative plays we saw last season?

I think we were trying to give him the opportunity to grow from gadget player to legit NFL WR and it just isn't happening. Whether that's on Samuel or on Allen is up for debate, but I imagine it's some mix of the two with both parties sharing some of the blame. To what degree, I have no idea.

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think Moore is coming along quite nicely. Samuel is disappointing though. His development track is looking more and more like he's probably going to end up being a one trick pony gadget player in the NFL. Fortunately for him, his one trick is highly coveted. Unfortunately for us, we're ill equipped at QB to take advantage of that one trick. Samuel and the Panthers are just a poor match at the moment.

Samuel was originally drafted to be in the slot, and I suspect he'd be a nightmare for opposing defenses in that roll.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

I was alluding to the WR coach as well, and knew that if you were watching, you'd be the one to pick up on it.

Samuel looked good both weeks, especially the second week when Cam was missing him left and right. Two or three misses in a game can have profound consequences.

Said elsewhere I think Proehl was overrated but better than what we have now. Still don't understand parting ways with Lance Taylor.

There were definitely better options available than Hostler. Can't help wondering if part of the reason Norv hired him was because he wouldn't threaten Scott's ascension.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Samuel was originally drafted to be in the slot, and I suspect he'd be a nightmare for opposing defenses in that roll.

Slot guys are routinely asked to make the tough underneath catches, oftentimes in heavy traffic. I haven't seen anything from Samuel that makes me think he could excel in that role.

[top dawg]

19 minutes ago, Car123 said:

We used him better last season. Where are all the creative plays we saw last season?

I think that if we could get---legitimately get Crief into the mix, maybe that would give us more leeway to use Samuel more effectively. Of course, Norv has to be more creative, and Allen has to play better and make everyone a legitimate threat.

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Slot guys are routinely asked to make the tough underneath catches, oftentimes in heavy traffic. I haven't seen anything from Samuel that makes me think he could excel in that role.

Well, that's where we disagree. I think Samuel's inability to make a tough catch is being somewhat overblown, as ball placement has been kinda bad. I also think that the slot frees up guys with his kind of speed and elusiveness to be extremely effective in between the 1st and 2nd level of the defense.

[kungfoodude]

10 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Well, that's where we disagree. I think Samuel's inability to make a tough catch is being somewhat overblown, as ball placement has been kinda bad. I also think that the slot frees up guys with his kind of speed and elusiveness to be extremely effective in between the 1st and 2nd level of the defense.

His catch percentage for his career is 55.4%. He has really never been consistent as a receiver. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SamuCu00.htm

[Matt62881]

39 minutes ago, CRA said:

Ginn has always been a pure WR though.   And as knocked as Ginn has been over his career for running his routes....Samuel isn't as good at it as Ginn.  He shouldn't be either. Not in terms of being a pure WR.  I think he can get better separation at times on the some short throws because he simply has better agility and overall athletic ability.  But his actual routes suck and he isn't a very good at being a WR.  

Samuel was more a RB than WR in college.  I think people forget that. 

And Percy Harvin had games where he logged 7 8 9 10 11 12 catches a game too in the NFL. 

The knock on Samuel IMO still applies when we drafted him.  Samuel would have made sense for us if we hadn't drafted CMC.  You could work him into a lot of quirky short throws.  Have him in and out of the backfield.   He was a head scratcher in you recall when we drafted him because of us taking CMC.  Samuel never fit out wide as a traditional WR.  He is basically that quirky stud hybrid LB that often gets drafted by teams who can't use him right. 

 

 

I just think he shows more consistency then a percy harvin, i feel like Harvin would completely disappear for weeks and show for one game. Samuel gets a few catches every game and has a few nice redzone tds that guys of his size usually don't get. Also if you add in the deep wide open throws that KA has missed he would be kn pace for very decent yardage. Im gonna look up Harvin to confirm my thoughts and Samuel for the year but i think he has a higher ceiling then Harvin. Jmo.

[Cpt slay a ho]

I’ve always liked curtco to be used more like last year, Moore has the most potential to be a number 1 WR, I’d love to add a outside guy and have Samuel play the slot a lot more. Also would like to see him lined up in the backfield more.

i think both of there performances are suffering a bit due to kyles play

[Matt62881]

12 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

His catch percentage for his career is 55.4%. He has really never been consistent as a receiver. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SamuCu00.htm

Im usually a statistics guy and i know its right there but i just dont see it when im watching him. I see the occasional drop but for the most part he makes some hard catches sometimes on poorly thrown balls...i just dont see the drops in game.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, Matt62881 said:

Im usually a statistics guy and i know its right there but i just dont see it when im watching him. I see the occasional drop but for the most part he makes some hard catches sometimes on poorly thrown balls...i just dont see the drops in game.

The catch percentage is just a targets to receptions ratio. As far as drops, I don't think he really has a big issue with drops, moreso just being able to make plays on the ball. It's definitely not all his fault but elite playmakers and receivers both tend to be able to get open and make plays on the ball at a higher rate. IMO, Samuel is not that guy. He's a pretty average NFL complimentary role player. Nothing wrong with that at all but it is a far cry from what he was touted to be and I think drafted to be. 

[top dawg]

14 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

His catch percentage for his career is 55.4%. He has really never been consistent as a receiver. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SamuCu00.htm

Catch percentage is probably as nebulous a receiving statistic as there is. 

Moreover, remember that Samuel has had some injuries, our receiving corps has had bad luck with injuries that caused us to use Samuel as a WR1, and Cam has had some injuries, so has Samuel ever really been in that great of a situation? He's only now played 32 games, and even less games as a receiver effectively in the flow of the game. I think your have to look at all that when trying to evaluate his true effectiveness or lack thereof.

[Matt62881]

10 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The catch percentage is just a targets to receptions ratio. As far as drops, I don't think he really has a big issue with drops, moreso just being able to make plays on the ball. It's definitely not all his fault but elite playmakers and receivers both tend to be able to get open and make plays on the ball at a higher rate. IMO, Samuel is not that guy. He's a pretty average NFL complimentary role player. Nothing wrong with that at all but it is a far cry from what he was touted to be and I think drafted to be. 

I dunno late second round guy with his injuries this is basically his second year, i dont expect him ever to be elite but a very good receiver. If he was elite we couldn't afford him and Moore for years to come. He definitely has room to improve but he has made some nasty plays on the ball this season in the redzone. The type of wr he is you need a qb with a cannon to fully utilize him. If he put up 800 to 1k yards a year and 5 to 7 tds id be ecstatic. I see a developed Moore with a good qb at 1200 to 1500 a year 7 tds, most of his tds come from breakaway receptions is why he doesn't have many, i expect him to up his redzone game alot in the years to come.

[Squirrel]

Look like something else I was right  about in the preseason.