Changing the coaching and GM philosophy

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Same thing as with Cam though, you know he can't do that forever.

I'm going to be watching how they coach him in the years to come. If they just exploit his ability like we did Newton, eventually it'll be unsustainable.

Everyone points to Cam as an example of a running QB not lasting, but he has taken most of his damage in the pocket behind our porous OL. That concussion against the Falcons is the only real injury I can recall him incurring running the football. 

[bandu]

yew haw whatcha y'all knawl see saw

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Everyone points to Cam as an example of a running QB not lasting, but he has taken most of his damage in the pocket behind our porous OL. That concussion against the Falcons is the only real injury I can recall him incurring running the football. 

I'm not even talking about the damage, though that's a factor.

The turnaround that Newton saw after one offseason under Norv Turner was amazing. It's hard not to imagine how different things could have been if we'd have had Turner all along.

I want to see if somebody is going to coach Jackson that same way or if they just live and die off of his physical skills.

Damaged or no damage, those aren't going to last forever.

[kungfoodude]

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Speaking of Belichick, I can't stand the guy but he's really cementing his coaching greatness this season - as if that was even in question at this point. Honestly, Father Time has caught Tom Brady. Don't get me wrong, he's still a good QB, but he's not "Tom Brady" anymore. His yards per attempt haven't been this low since '06 and he has by far the lowest TD% of his career.  But it doesn't matter because Belichick has built an absolutely dominant defense to protect him.

It has always been Belichick. If Brady had not been there, I believe they would have had almost as much success if not the same amount. That doesn't presume to take anything away from Brady as an all-time great QB but QB's like Matt Cassell, Jimmy Garoppolo and Jacoby Brissett have all won games for NE during that time span. Not to mention you see a parade of coordinators and assistants leave him and not be nearly as successful as they are with him.

If Brady does indeed leave NE for his last few years in the league, I would not be surprised at all if it doesn't become even more apparent that it was predominantly Belichick that drove the success of that dynasty. 

[TheRed]

29 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Hell, all we needed was a coach/coordinator that was capable of making adequate adjustments in the game and we'd have a Super Bowl trophy.

 

27 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't even think it had to be an offensive minded head coach, just a head coach willing to adapt and hire the right offensive coaching talent. Keep in mind, Bill Belichick is technically a defensive minded coach.

Rookie of the year with Rob Chudzinski, and dragged Mike Shula to a Super Bowl.

All we really needed was a head coach with any kind of eye for a modern NFL offense. Instead we got the guy who benched Cam Newton over a tie and watched his backup throw a pick on the very first play.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

It has always been Belichick. If Brady had not been there, I believe they would have had almost as much success if not the same amount. That doesn't presume to take anything away from Brady as an all-time great QB but QB's like Matt Cassell, Jimmy Garoppolo and Jacoby Brissett have all won games for NE during that time span. Not to mention you see a parade of coordinators and assistants leave him and not be nearly as successful as they are with him.

If Brady does indeed leave NE for his last few years in the league, I would not be surprised at all if it doesn't become even more apparent that it was predominantly Belichick that drove the success of that dynasty. 

I agree. Brady is without a doubt a great QB but he has benefited far more from Belichick than vice versa IMO. There are likely a lot of NFL QBs who could've had tremendous success for the Pats over his tenure. Maybe not as much as Brady, but a lot for sure.

[firefox1234]

I don't know how you can support a HC who has been here for 8 YEARS and says stuff like this....

 

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I agree. Brady is without a doubt a great QB but he has benefited far more from Belichick than vice versa IMO. There are likely a lot of NFL QBs who could've had tremendous success for the Pats over his tenure. Maybe not as much as Brady, but a lot for sure.

Kind of leads into another thing about Belichick.

One thing he's been really good at is picking assistants. From Charlie Weis to Josh McDaniels to Dante Scarnecchia, etc, the man certainly knows how to build a good coaching staff.

Granted, those guys don't ever seem capable of doing anything much without him (kids coaching tree looks like Charlie Brown's Christmas tree) but hey...

As mentioned previously, that's an area where Rivera is severely lacking.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Kind of leads into another thing about Belichick.

One thing he's been really good at is picking assistants. From Charlie Weis to Josh McDaniels to Dante Scarnecchia, etc, the man knows how to build a really good staff.

Granted, those guys don't really seem capable of doing anything much without him, but hey...

As mentioned previously, that's an area where Rivera is severely lacking.

I think he is able to get the most out of his people, whether players or coaches. It's the gift that he has that many others don't. Ron is almost the exact opposite. 

[My Goodness My Guinness]

56 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

A lot of the anti-Cam crowd doesn't want to admit it, but honestly his injury struggles over the past few years exposes what many of us were saying all along - Cam Newton was completely carrying this offense. We have a RB who is having one of the all-time great RB seasons and it's still not enough. Without CMC, this would likely be a bottom 5 NFL offense. We're tied for second to last in passing TDs.

No doubt. He really was superman. 

He also hid a lot of the issues with the O-Line. The D-Line couldn't over pursue because that would open up scrambling lanes, and he was able to escape when blocking was blown. 

Sadly, I'm not so confident that he will be able to come back to form without getting injured again. 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think he is able to get the most out of his people, whether players or coaches. It's the gift that he has that many others don't. Ron is almost the exact opposite. 

One of the things people have liked to point up about Rivera is his being a player's coach, having their loyalty and getting the most out of them.

If you were using the last few seasons as your base data, is that still true?

[MasterAwesome]

24 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

The big difference is the colts have not come out all year and looked completely unprepared to play their opponent. The most they have lost by is 7 points, we have been blown out twice and looked completely lost both games. 

They lost to the phins by 4 points with Brian Hoyer at QB, their 3rd string QB, and he threw 3 ints. 

Their "offensive genius" HC Reich along with a stud OL should be able to put up more than 12 points against the Dolphins' defense...31st in points allowed and 29th in yards allowed.  Even with Hoyer, who is adequate and arguably the best "3rd string QB" in the league.

And losing close games is still very much a testament to coaching....arguably even more so.  I recall Rivera getting blasted early in his career (and rightfully so) for his record in one-score games.  Whereas if you're getting absolutely demolished, then yeah lots of that is due to coaching and a lack of preparation but chances are that your team also probably isn't very good.

[kungfoodude]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

One of the things people have liked to point up about Rivera is his being a player's coach, having their loyalty and getting the most out of them.

If you were using the last few seasons as your base data, is that still true?

And I am sure that is true but being a good person and good guy may make players loyal but you need that "extra gear" to be able to inspire them to be great. I think he is a good "lead by example" guy. I just am not sure he can inspire greatness in players consistently. I would theorize that this is probably much easier to see in younger players, who don't necessarily realize the value of playing for a "good guy" whereas the older players who have been through more in their careers can appreciate what that means and might be more willing to step up to protect him. 

[Snake]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

It's been obvious to anyone with half a brain. Predominantly garbage OL and little to no above average NFL receivers over his entire career here. It's crazy. He has had good running backs but that is the only help he has gotten. Hell, he's the third leading rusher in franchise history, so he even has had to carry a bunch of that load as well.

Even a great RB can't overcome a sorry line. As OJ would say "if you guys don't block, I can't run". Newton was a generational talent that was used like a RB for most of his career. It's a damn shame and why I truly hate Rivera.