Kyle Allen Only Struggles Because of the OL

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Sure, if you only look at a narrow range of stats. 

This isn't the worst pass protecting unit in Panthers history. I have literally shown that before by simply looking at historical stats SPECIFICALLY on sacks, sack rates, league rankings, etc. I can put them up again, if you'd like. 

It's not just Stafford. If you want to do take a purely statistical approach, Newton would grade out as one of the bottom ten quarterbacks in the league.

This is the kind of fallacy that you get  relying purely on the math in a human sport that's as complex as football.

[JARROD]

37 minutes ago, WarPanthers89 said:

Best meme award.

couldnt express myself any better

except maybe

bawahahahahahahahaha 

[Car123]

Byron Bell and a DT masquerading as an offensive lineman and Amini.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

It's not just Stafford. If you want to do take a purely statistical approach, Newton would grade out as one of the bottom ten quarterbacks in the league.

This is the kind of fallacy that you get are relying purely on the math in a human sport that's as complex as football.

If you are grading him on purely PASSING statistics, sure. But he is one of the best rushing QB's in NFL history, so if you ignore that impact you are simply ignoring what he does as a player. THAT is cherry picking statistics. 

The OL line stats aren't cherry picked. They are what they are. I can add in rushing stats to get a bigger picture, if you'd like but I have bad news for you....they are going to look a LOT better as a unit after that happens. 

[WarPanthers89]

16 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I can't buy into that idea. If your confidence as a QB is that easy to shake, I don't think it's likely you have the mental make up to be a long term, successful, starting NFL QB. Bad games are going to happen. Bad streaks are going to happen. You have to battle through it. Elite, good and even average QB's in the league battle through that stuff. 

If Grier comes in and his confidence is irreparably shattered, was he ever going to be good?

At this point, I want to see Grier. Allen isn't going to win us any more games, the team has obviously given up, what is the downside of just getting a look at your drafted QB?

What’s the upside? We are out of the playoffs, and have struggled with protecting the QB (one of the worst sack rate in the league). We drafted him knowing he needed time to develop, and the new coach will get a look at him next offseason after he has had an entire year to get use to being in the NFL, reading defenses, and working on crafting his skills. You can develop bad habits by getting obliterated...see Allen. In the past teams developed QBs for a year all the time and now people act like you are crazy for doing so. 

[Forty-Eight]

[Car123]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

It's not just Stafford. If you want to do take a purely statistical approach, Newton would grade out as one of the bottom ten quarterbacks in the league.

This is the kind of fallacy that you get  relying purely on the math in a human sport that's as complex as football.

Idk about bottom 10, but if you don't ignore his rushing contributions, he's clearly top 10-12.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

If you are grading him on purely PASSING statistics, sure. But he is one of the best rushing QB's in NFL history, so if you ignore that impact you are simply ignoring what he does as a player. THAT is cherry picking statistics. 

The OL line stats aren't cherry picked. They are what they are. I can add in rushing stats to get a bigger picture, if you'd like but I have bad news for you....they are going to look a LOT better as a unit after that happens. 

Would our run stats look equally good if someone like Cameron Artis-Payne was running behind them instead of Christian McCaffrey?

How many times have you seen PFF say something goofy like Matt Paradis or even Matt Kalil had our best line performance?

Stats just aren't as authoritative as people want to make them, especially not in football.

[joeyxfresco]

Kyle Allen struggles because he throws it into double or triple coverage 

[CPF4LIFE]

Lol

[Car123]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Would our run stats look equally good if someone like Cameron Artis-Payne was running behind them instead of Christian McCaffrey?

How many times have you seen PFF say something goofy like Matt Paradis or even Matt Kalil had our best line performance?

Stats just aren't as authoritative as people want to make them, especially not in football.

They looked great with freaking Bonnafon.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, WarPanthers89 said:

What’s the upside? We are out of the playoffs, and have struggled with protecting the QB (one of the worst sack rate in the league). We drafted him knowing he needed time to develop, and the new coach will get a look at him next offseason after he has had an entire year to get use to being in the NFL, reading defenses, and working on crafting his skills. You can develop bad habits by getting obliterated...see Allen. In the past teams developed QBs for a year all the time and now people act like you are crazy for doing so. 

The upside is literally getting a look at what you have during "live fire." I am not concerned about him behind that line. It's the NFL, you are either going to make the best of imperfect situations or you aren't. And, yes, the new coaches have the ability to see him all offseason but I can quote Allen Iverson on that. What matters most is what you do when the lights come on. Nothing is going to prepare you like actual game reps. 

And, no, he is unlikely to develop any more bad habits. If he has bad habits, they are already ingrained in him by this point in his football career. Now starts the work of deprogramming them. Allen's bad habits didn't develop here, he had issues with turnovers in college too. Grier will either be fine or he won't.

Now, as for the legitimate downside? Let's say he is good and we rattle off two wins. Now we are looking at mid-round picks in the draft. But, maybe you buoy that by finding an asset you didn't know you had. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Car123 said:

They looked great with freaking Bonnafon.

For how many plays?

That's like judging Christian McCaffrey as a superior passer based off the touchdown he threw to Chris Manhertz.

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, WarPanthers89 said:

What’s the upside? We are out of the playoffs, and have struggled with protecting the QB (one of the worst sack rate in the league). We drafted him knowing he needed time to develop, and the new coach will get a look at him next offseason after he has had an entire year to get use to being in the NFL, reading defenses, and working on crafting his skills. You can develop bad habits by getting obliterated...see Allen. In the past teams developed QBs for a year all the time and now people act like you are crazy for doing so. 

It's two games.

If two bad games are enough to wreck his NFL career, he doesn't belong.