The chicken or the egg?

[LinvilleGorge]

By and large I don't think it's either or. If the right QB is there that you think is a legit franchise QB, I think you take him over a top OL. If he's not then it's a moot point. You're not going to do yourself any favors by reaching on a QB just to pick a QB. 

I'm a pretty big fan of taking the BPA. In the long run, that approach generally pays off. In situations where prospects are rated closely, then revert back to need to decide the pick but don't pass on superior talent to reach on need.

[BurnHurnBurn]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

So let's assume for a moment that we're starting a full on rebuild next year.

The general belief is that such a rebuild starts by getting your chosen quarterback. "But hang on," some folks interject, "What good is a quarterback if we can't protect him? He'd get slaughtered behind our line."

I've seen some pretty strong opinions both ways, so here's a chance for advocates on either side to make their case.

Do you start by drafting a quarterback next year or do you build up an offensive line and get a placeholder with an eye toward getting that franchise QB when you know you can protect him?

Show your math.

Offensive Line Upgrades - LT, LG, C

If there is any money available in the next 2-3 seasons that can be spent, draft picks that can be used, trades that can be made, the offensive line is and will remain the most important project on our roster.  

(Breakdown in bullet points for brevity and clarity.)

• Team Strength, CMC, obviously the focal point of the offense.  Get him some blockers and watch him go.
• No matter who is QB they will most likely be inexperienced or returning from injury.  Giving the QB a clean pocket and a crazy run game and whomever that QB is has a real chance to succeed.
• Having a top tier line would make us competitive and at the very least explosive and fun to watch.
• With Great roster management a turnaround on the line can be done quickly.  Since we dont have that, we may need an extended timeframe especially if our FO sees more turnover.
• Drafting a QB is a massive decision that should be coordinated by the HC/GM/Owner.  If our GM or other executive officers are yet to be determined, why make that pick?
• There is a strong possibility the QB market will be flush with all these backups getting exposure this season, as noted above, stable play at QB would be effective alongside CMC and a strong line.  
• An average investment at QB will buy time to get the FO situated and our scouts established to make the next QB selection.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, BurnHurnBurn said:

Offensive Line Upgrades - LT, LG, C

If there is any money available in the next 2-3 seasons that can be spent, draft picks that can be used, trades that can be made, the offensive line is and will remain the most important project on our roster.  

(Breakdown in bullet points for brevity and clarity.)

• Team Strength, CMC, obviously the focal point of the offense.  Get him some blockers and watch him go.
• No matter who is QB they will most likely be inexperienced or returning from injury.  Giving the QB a clean pocket and a crazy run game and whomever that QB is has a real chance to succeed.
• Having a top tier line would make us competitive and at the very least explosive and fun to watch.
• With Great roster management a turnaround on the line can be done quickly.  Since we dont have that, we may need an extended timeframe especially if our FO sees more turnover.
• Drafting a QB is a massive decision that should be coordinated by the HC/GM/Owner.  If our GM or other executive officers are yet to be determined, why make that pick?
• There is a strong possibility the QB market will be flush with all these backups getting exposure this season, as noted above, stable play at QB would be effective alongside CMC and a strong line.  
• An average investment at QB will buy time to get the FO situated and our scouts established to make the next QB selection.

Don't forget about DL. We need a rebuild in the trenches on both sides of the ball. We would've likely struggled in the W-L column this year even with Cam given our defensive woes. Even with a healthy Cam, we're probably a 10 win, maybe 11 win team this season and that's a borderline playoff team in this year's NFC. The fact that some team has to win the sorry NFC East is going to leave a pretty good football team that would usually be in the playoffs sitting at home this year.

[Moo Daeng]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Another chicken or the egg situation. Are QBs selected at the top of the 1st struggling because of their own play or because they're surrounded by a trash team? QBs that go later in the 1st are by and large going into better team situations.

Not every player going later is going to a good team. Only those going on late parts of the rounds.

Regardless, they need a good team to go to or they are a waste. So that seems to make the argument for the linemen even stronger.

Just my opinion.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Moo Daeng said:

Not every player going later is going to a good team. Only those going on late parts of the rounds.

Regardless, they need a good team to go to or they are a waste. So that seems to make the argument for the linemen even stronger.

Just my opinion.

I didn't say later in the draft for a reason. I said later in the 1st.

[BurnHurnBurn]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Don't forget about DL. We need a rebuild in the trenches on both sides of the ball. We would've likely struggled in the W-L column this year even with Cam given our defensive woes.

Im purposefully ignoring the DL.  It will have to be addressed later.  The entire theory of my post is based on minimal investment in the DL for the time periods mentioned.  That defense is loaded with high draft picks and FA's.  A new focus is needed.  CMC needs the kind of help we denied Cam for 9 years.  We should lean into it and make life easier for him while simultaneously giving the QB a wall to comfortably stand behind maximizing his potential and shortening whatever learning curve may be associated.

[Forty-Eight]

You take Tua or Herbert if they are available. Don’t be stupid. 

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, BurnHurnBurn said:

Im purposefully ignoring the DL.  It will have to be addressed later.  The entire theory of my post is based on minimal investment in the DL for the time periods mentioned.  That defense is loaded with high draft picks and FA's.  A new focus is needed.  CMC needs the kind of help we denied Cam for 9 years.  We should lean into it and make life easier for him while simultaneously giving the QB a wall to comfortably stand behind maximizing his potential and shortening whatever learning curve may be associated.

All those high picks are being wasted when they're playing behind a trash DL.

[hepcat]

Well we did it with the QB first last time then trying to build the team and that worked *ok* so I’d be down to try it the other way this time 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Forty-Eight said:

You take Tua or Herbert if they are available. Don’t be stupid. 

Tua is made of glass and Herbert is a bust looking for a place to happen.

[Forty-Eight]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Tua is made of glass and Herbert is a bust looking for a place to happen.

Sure

[bigdog10]

I’d draft the qb if you fall in love with one. 
 

teams are making a pretty consistent habit of making playoff pushes with qbs on rookie deals (unless you have an all time great in Brees, Brady or Rodgers). 
 

there are five of those such scenarios in the AFC Just this year alone:

Watson

Jackson

Allen

Hodges (assuming the Steelers get in over the Titans) 

Mahomes 

NFC is a little different this year but just last year you had three:  Dak, Trubisky and Goff

[Moo Daeng]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I didn't say later in the draft for a reason. I said later in the 1st.

That's like one person. Rodgers.

[Forty-Eight]

Super MVPS the last 53 years

29 QBs

ZERO OL