Interesting 3 rd mock

[1of10Charnatives]

2 minutes ago, Rags said:

I read your post, but that's your opinion. It's not a fact that O-line is how you start a rebuild. 

You don't have to build o-line first. If you're rebuilding you want to add talent, period. 

Brown has been widely considered to be a top 3 talent this draft. And to get him at 7 wouldn't just fill a position of need but also add an immense talent to our roster. That should be our goal, be it OT, DT, WR, CB, LB what the fug ever.

O-line is great, and we super undervalued it in the past. But we have a top 10 pick, we don't need to lock on at ANY position right now. 

 

 

Do you dispute that if a qb is injured, that is potentially a long term issue for the entire franchise, not just that one player, give the central importance of the position, it's scarcity of quality play, and cost of a franchise back?

Do you contend that a bad run D has consequences beyond the immediate season? If so, how?

[MHS831]

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Two words: Jamarcus Russell.   I agree that it is lazy-minded to think only 1st round QBs are the safest way to go.  That's the reason you have to look at players individually; past program hype, systems and records.  

For every QB you can name that has succeeded beyond the first round, we could name 10-15 who never made it.

[45catfan]

Just now, MHS831 said:

For every QB you can name that has succeeded beyond the first round, we could name 10-15 who never made it.

Right, so you have to do your homework!  But the lazy assumption since a guy has a 1st round grade that he's a future franchise QB?  Nah, that's some pathetic VJ armchair GMing right there.

[MHS831]

4 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Right, so you have to do your homework!  But the lazy assumption since a guy has a 1st round grade that he's a future franchise QB?  Nah, that's some pathetic VJ armchair GMing right there.

If Burrow would have come out last year (hypothetically) he would have been a day 3 pick or undrafted.  Funny how much difference 15 games can make....A QB guru---like Brady---may be the difference.

[Matt62881]

10 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Do you dispute that if a qb is injured, that is potentially a long term issue for the entire franchise, not just that one player, give the central importance of the position, it's scarcity of quality play, and cost of a franchise back?

Do you contend that a bad run D has consequences beyond the immediate season? If so, how?

Even if not adressed at 7 though the oline can still be adressed in the 2nd (center) and through FA. If you think about it, KA did play behind this line most of the year and never got hurt, I think both positions need fixing this year and next. 

[Rags]

Just now, 1of10Charnatives said:

Do you dispute that if a qb is injured, that is potentially a long term issue for the entire franchise, not just that one player, give the central importance of the position, it's scarcity of quality play, and cost of a franchise back?

Do you contend that a bad run D has consequences beyond the immediate season? If so, how?

It depends on the injury.

We're only 3 years removed from Carson Wentz going down and Nick Foles coming in and helping that team get to the superbowl. We're also watching Ryan Tannehill win with a great supporting cast around him. Yes, having elite QB play is ideal. But for all the noise surrounding that ideal, there's shockingly few elite franchise QBs out there. Both of those franchises are fine.

I'm not saying the run d being fixed next season is why we should draft Brown. My point is "our run defense being terrible is a problem and we have a chance to draft a top end DT to help our rebuild". My point in my original post was "We want an OT because our o-line sucked last season, but don't want a DT depsite how just as bad if not worse." 

You're playing what if ball here man. Back to my Carson Wentz injury thats the team with the best RT in the leauge. It's football. poo happens. 31 teams end up disappointing every year. Drafting an OT helps us protect the QB and lessens that, but by your logic we should draft OT just for that What If scenario.  

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

If Burrow would have come out last year (hypothetically) he would have been a day 3 pick or undrafted.  Funny how much difference 15 games can make....A QB guru---like Brady---may be the difference.

Burrow had the tools, he jut needed the right system and coaching up

[1of10Charnatives]

3 minutes ago, Rags said:

It depends on the injury.

We're only 3 years removed from Carson Wentz going down and Nick Foles coming in and helping that team get to the superbowl. We're also watching Ryan Tannehill win with a great supporting cast around him. Yes, having elite QB play is ideal. But for all the noise surrounding that ideal, there's shockingly few elite franchise QBs out there. Both of those franchises are fine.

I'm not saying the run d being fixed next season is why we should draft Brown. My point is "our run defense being terrible is a problem and we have a chance to draft a top end DT to help our rebuild". My point in my original post was "We want an OT because our o-line sucked last season, but don't want a DT depsite how just as bad if not worse." 

You're playing what if ball here man. Back to my Carson Wentz injury thats the team with the best RT in the leauge. It's football. poo happens. 31 teams end up disappointing every year. Drafting an OT helps us protect the QB and lessens that, but by your logic we should draft OT just for that What If scenario.  

I'm playing what if ball to the extent that I'm considering that realistically we can only place a heavy emphasis on fixing one of the two lines and not both, and I'm looking at which thing left unfixed has potentially long term consequences vs which does not. If you want to say that makes playing what if ball bad, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not advocating for picking a shitty oline prospect while we let Brown pass us by, I'm saying one thing needs to be prioritized over the other within the overall context of this offseason.

[Matt62881]

31 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

People are talking like he could go top 15.

Well that's definitely a no for me, too likely to bust. We are in a position I think we will rarely be in and we need to take advantage and get a once in a decade player. With these coaches, even if KA is back there and we improve the O and D line i dont see us in the top 10 again because regardless of how bad KA looked in the end he will still probably improve. 

[1of10Charnatives]

7 minutes ago, Matt62881 said:

Even if not adressed at 7 though the oline can still be adressed in the 2nd (center) and through FA. If you think about it, KA did play behind this line most of the year and never got hurt, I think both positions need fixing this year and next. 

KA never got hurt in part because by the end of the year he was no longer looking downfield and instead just looking to see if his protection broke down, which it usually had, and then diving to the ground while yelling "Not in the face, not in the face!" KA is what 14?  Cam's 30 year old already taken 8 years worth of beating body probably wont' hold up as well to similiar punishment is my guess. But hey, it's only our franchise qb, sure, lets roll the dice, cause that's worked out great up to this point by ignoring the oline so far in his career.

[Happy Panther]

52 minutes ago, MMA said:

Love is an intriguing player. Great size and great arm. He could be your Colin Kaepernick or just another bust. High risk high reward. If we want a QB, go get Burrow or Tua. I’m tired of investing 2nd and 3rd rounders on QB. There’s a reason why franchise QBs are drafted in the 1st round. 

Watch New England get him at 23 and it works...

[Matt62881]

7 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Burrow had the tools, he jut needed the right system and coaching up

That's what we should be looking for is a guy with the tools that had bad coaching and ends up slipping to the later rounds of the draft for the next few years. If Cam is healthy we should roll with him until this qb is found. Cam could buy us 5  years to find the guy.

[Matt62881]

1 minute ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

KA never got hurt in part because by the end of the year he was no longer looking downfield and instead just looking to see if his protection broke down, which it usually had, and then diving to the ground while yelling "Not in the face, not in the face!" KA is what 14?  Cam's 30 year old already taken 8 years worth of beating body probably wont' hold up as well to similiar punishment is my guess. But hey, it's only our franchise qb, sure, lets roll the dice, cause that's worked out great up to this point by ignoring the oline so far in his career.

If you have read my posts I am in no way advocating ignoring the oline, quite the opposite, just in a different way. I think FA-Paradis or Dayley- 2nd rd pick- Turner- Moton is a great upgrade over last year and probably one of the best olines Cam has been behind. The FA could be Jason Peters, Donald Penn, or a number of other guys while Little develops behind them. I don't think the best tackle in this draft will outperform Peter's or Penn in their rookie year.

[Captain Morgan]

if Brown is gone, and Thomas is or we decide to wait and see on Little, I'm all for taking a position other than the lines.

Luke is gone.  We don't have a single playmaker on defense.  Bradberry is good, Shaq is decent, but we need a playmaker on defense if we don't have Brown or Thomas.

Isaiah Simmons out of Clemson might be that guy.