DT vs. OT

[MHS831]

3 hours ago, Raleigh PF said:

You left off option #3, which is to trade down. The Panthers need more picks and drafting ONE player such as Brown or Thomas is not going to offer a lot of help. Couple that with the fact that the Panthers aren't swimming in cap space and the obvious choice is to trade down.

Oakland should be the target with their two #1 picks. They would likely trade up to #7 if they could get Jeudy.

With the #12 and #19 picks, BOTH positions could be satisfied, but I would be happiest with Kinlaw and Delpit. 

I thought about it, but I wanted to keep this simple--but I would drop back for Kinlaw and maybe the 2nd or 3rd CB--as well as Delpit. 

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

54 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Those were indeed dark days in Pantherland---that and the Pie Chart presser, where the whole world got to see Jerry Richardson represent a paranoid owner's perspective, hit on Morgan Fogherty, and change the direction of Darrin Gantt's career.  I seriously believe that presser is why Andrew Luck stayed in school.   Marty getting released from his leash to re-sign the core players from a 2-14 team with nearly all of the $70m cap room he had---then trying to trade up with the Rams (he offered next year's first rounder---the CAM pick---to the Rams to move up to #33 to grab Clausen; the Rams did not accept it.  Marty thought Clausen was going to Denver in the first round, but they selected The Golden Calf of Bristol instead. He wanted to move up to get ahead of 2 teams that needed a QB--Minnesota and Kansas City---surprised that one of them did not take Clausen in the first round.  But the trade fell through, and Marty tried to make other deals, but people wanted that first rounder and a third--too rich, even for Marty---but he nearly pulled the trigger a few times.  KC and Minnesota passed on Clausen in the second round--and that should have told Marty that they knew something he did not---but Marty took Clausen and then bragged that he did not have to trade away any picks to get a QB with a first round grade.  How do I know this?  I talked to people from Norwood who know Brandon Beane.  He was a high school QB at South Stanly High School, where I used to teach back in the day-.  He told them this story and they shared it with me.  Second hand, but I trust it.

 

Definitely makes sense and I am not surprised. This isnt the first time I've heard about him trying to trade up for Clausen, and if Hurneys previous actions say anything it's that once he identifies his "guy" in the later rounds he will do almost anything to try and trade up for him. Hes done it time and time again so I have little to no doubt that your story is true.

 

[MHS831]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I'd love having both options. We desperately need a LT and just any help on the OL at all but getting a game changing DT would be a huge boost, as well. That is a tough call.

I'd probably take Brown but I'd be happy with either of them.

I started this because I really cannot tell--maybe after watching the combine, but right now---What I see on the sites I scan for wisdom is Thomas dropping to the middle picks 12-15---something I find crazy---and Brown staying around #5.

 

[kungfoodude]

Just now, MHS831 said:

I started this because I really cannot tell--maybe after watching the combine, but right now---What I see on the sites I scan for wisdom is Thomas dropping to the middle picks 12-15---something I find crazy---and Brown staying around #5.

 

I think Brown is more likely a safe pick to be a Pro Bowl caliber player than Thomas. I think that is why people say that about Thomas slipping.

[MHS831]

4 minutes ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

Definitely makes sense and I am not surprised. This isnt the first time I've heard about him trying to trade up for Clausen, and if Hurneys previous actions say anything it's that once he identifies his "guy" in the later rounds he will do almost anything to try and trade up for him. Hes done it time and time again so I have little to no doubt that your story is true.

 

I used to get my car inspected at a gas station and his tags expired at the same time--we bumped into each other a few years there--but I was not close enough to pry---besides, I figured he was a nobody anyway.  Mike Turgovach (Sp?) also lived in the area--I once had a long talk with him at Belk in Albemarle while our wives were shopping.  Good guy.

[thefuzz]

2 hours ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

I think that Cam's options at this point are, play for us, prove he's still got it, and go from there...or call it a career. The thing I cannot wrap my head around is him calling it a career, therefore I see him playing for us. I'm not the guy who makes declarations about what absolutely will or won't happen, so as with anything I say, it is subjectively just what I think sitting here at the keyboard.

I agree with the above.  But IMO I think he has 3 options.

1:  Play out his contract here and prove that he is healthy, and can stay healthy.

2:  Retire.

3:  Request a trade or to be released outright.

 

Of the 3 options, IMO the most likely is 3, but that's just me.  Then 1, then 2.

[MHS831]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think Brown is more likely a safe pick to be a Pro Bowl caliber player than Thomas. I think that is why people say that about Thomas slipping.

I think Brown is the pick--but if he is gone---and Young, 2 QBs, and probably Okudah are gone--we have a shot at Thomas IF Huddler's point about Hurney not wanting to cover up Little is true.   In that case,  Epenesa or Simmons drop into play.  My point is, if Marty thinks the future is set at OT, OL is off the table, then that changes things.

[cmichd]

2 hours ago, thefuzz said:

Do you truly think that Cam plays for us this season?  I just can't quite wrap my head around him wanting to.

No he will be playing for either a "Yugley" big payday either here or somewhere else, or we will have a draft day trade for him.  Look we took Star and Short in 2013 and our D Line improved.  D Line can be improved next year and we can sturdy it up this year with some good 3rd and 4th round picks this year.  

 

 

[kungfoodude]

8 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I think Brown is the pick--but if he is gone---and Young, 2 QBs, and probably Okudah are gone--we have a shot at Thomas IF Huddler's point about Hurney not wanting to cover up Little is true.   In that case,  Epenesa or Simmons drop into play.  My point is, if Marty thinks the future is set at OT, OL is off the table, then that changes things.

I think a lot of scouts have reservations about Epenesa as a higher pick. Seems like most are saying he is really a 3-4 DE and has some athletic limitations.

[1of10Charnatives]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

I agree with the above.  But IMO I think he has 3 options.

1:  Play out his contract here and prove that he is healthy, and can stay healthy.

2:  Retire.

3:  Request a trade or to be released outright.

 

Of the 3 options, IMO the most likely is 3, but that's just me.  Then 1, then 2.

Number 3 seems unlikely to me given his public statements. If you publicly declare you’re excited to come back and play for the team, but privately request a trade or release, your public statements will have the effect of painting management as the bad guys if they do as you ask. This creates no benefit to you, but a reason not to do it for them.

 

[Ratzer]

Jerry Jeudy

[mrcompletely11]

10 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Number 3 seems unlikely to me given his public statements. If you publicly declare you’re excited to come back and play for the team, but privately request a trade or release, your public statements will have the effect of painting management as the bad guys if they do as you ask. This creates no benefit to you, but a reason not to do it for them.

 

He is just covering his bases.  Its a savvy move by him.  He turned the tables on the franchise to be the bad guy when this all shakes out next month.  He cannot request a trade if he is still hurt.  It doesnt work like that.  If/when the panthers cut him in March, because he fails his physical I am assuming,  then he can go wherever and take the time to get healthy with that team.  I think there is a 0% chance they keep him around if he is still hurt.  They cannot plan anything with him hanging over their heads.

[1of10Charnatives]

7 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

He is just covering his bases.  Its a savvy move by him.  He turned the tables on the franchise to be the bad guy when this all shakes out next month.  He cannot request a trade if he is still hurt.  It doesnt work like that.  If/when the panthers cut him in March, because he fails his physical I am assuming,  then he can go wherever and take the time to get healthy with that team.  I think there is a 0% chance they keep him around if he is still hurt.  They cannot plan anything with him hanging over their heads.

Again, 

looking at the rest of my post, what advantage does Cam gain in painting the organization as the bad guy this way?  Explain if he is indeed asking to be released how making public statements to the contrary benefits him?

Because I don’t see that it does. I think it just creates a disincentive for the team to comply with such a request. I’m not sure how that is “savy”.

[MHS831]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I am just not seeing why some people are so sure about Greg Little after he had two concussions in his first year and was pretty up and down in terms of play. Our OL is easily the worst unit on this team and has the least depth. We are going to have to do something to improve them. 

Personally, I think he would be a great Guard, if healthy.  If you upgrade 2 spots, worth it.