Derrick Brown Combine

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, WOW!! said:

I agree but it doesn't change the fact that CB are still considered a higher valued position then DT..

But should they be?

In the statistical analysis Samford University did, of all NFL statistical categories run defense had by far the strongest correlation to winning. They found literally no correlation between passing defense and winning.

https://www.samford.edu/sports-analytics/fans/2019/The-Most-Important-Aspect-to-Winning-Football-Games-from-Last-Years-NFL-Season

[AU-panther]

16 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Say what? Akiem Hicks has 33.5 career sacks. Casey has 51. For reference, Kawann Short has 32.5.

So an average of 4.2, 5.6 and 4.6?  You would be happy with Short at 7?

Also I think some of Casey's were as a 3-4 end, could be wrong.  

3 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

CB is also one of the biggest boom-or-bust positions (arguably THE biggest).

Based on what?  I hear statements like this all the time but what metric are we using.

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It all starts in the trenches. We could have the greatest secondary in the history of the NFL and it won't matter if our DL doesn't play a lot better than they did last year.

The reverse can be said also.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, AU-panther said:

So an average of 4.2, 5.6 and 4.6?  You would be happy with Short at 7?

Also I think some of Casey's were as a 3-4 end, could be wrong.  

Based on what?  I hear statements like this all the time but what metric are we using.

The reverse can be said also.

 

Sorry to break it to you, but most DTs aren't Aaron Donald. "Pass rush" from a DT often means collapsing the pocket forcing the QB to move and oftentimes leading to a sack from a outside rusher. Maybe more so than any other position, stats often don't tell the impact of a DT.

The reverse can't be said and actually defended with numbers. Samford University did the number crunching.

[AU-panther]

13 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Sorry to break it to you, but most DTs aren't Aaron Donald. "Pass rush" from a DT often means collapsing the pocket forcing the QB to move and oftentimes leading to a sack from a outside rusher. Maybe more so than any other position, stats often don't tell the impact of a DT.

The reverse can't be said and actually defended with numbers. Samford University did the number crunching.

And that's point exactly, most DTs aren't Aaron Donald and top a 10 pick is a bit high for a run stopper.

In regards to the Samford study, that a good example of correlation doesn't always equal causation.

When a team has the lead, their opponent tends to throw more and run less.  Teams that win a lot tend to be ahead on the scoreboard a lot.  So do teams win because the are good at stopping the run or are they good at stopping the run because they are wining and forcing their opponent to throw more.

Conversely, teams that are bad tend to be behind in games more often, and therefore their opponents might run the ball more since they have the lead., so bad teams might give up more yards because their opponent who is winning is running more.

Last year 5/12 playoff teams were in the bottom 10 in YPA rushing defense. 2/5 made the super bowl.  Needless to say one of those won the Super Bowl.

The 5 best teams last year in YPA allowed rushing: TB, Jets, Steelers, Giants, Raiders.  Sign me up

 

 

[saX man]

The FA signings have me thinking we're pretty set on both Brown and Lynch in the draft on the DL. 

Rhule's first visit was immediately to Lynch back at Baylor.  They're super tight, was his and Snow's defensive leader.  And Derrick Brown seems almost as a sure thing as Star was if Simmons and Okudah are gone. 

 

[Shocker]

My thoughts on Brown.  Like him.  Will help run defense immensely right off the bat.

If Cleveland calls and that is my target I move down.  He might be there anyway and if not Kinlaw has great upside and is beastly.  

I want Simmons at 7.  Otherwise a move down.

[WOW!!]

7 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

But should they be?

In the statistical analysis Samford University did, of all NFL statistical categories run defense had by far the strongest correlation to winning. They found literally no correlation between passing defense and winning.

https://www.samford.edu/sports-analytics/fans/2019/The-Most-Important-Aspect-to-Winning-Football-Games-from-Last-Years-NFL-Season

I got your statistical breakdown on stopping the run.. But the financial compensation is higher with CB.. DT aren't making CB money having a CB on a cheap deal is more a financial windfall then DT.  

[Toomers]

7 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

I got your statistical breakdown on stopping the run.. But the financial compensation is higher with CB.. DT aren't making CB money having a CB on a cheap deal is more a financial windfall then DT.  

 I guess it doesn’t matter that 4 DTs make more than the highest paid CB. Donald by 5.5M Buckner by 3.5M. 
 

    That doesn’t add up?
 

   

[WOW!!]

12 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 I guess it doesn’t matter that 4 DTs make more than the highest paid CB. Donald by 5.5M Buckner by 3.5M. 
 

    That doesn’t add up?
 

   

You got 5 DT making over 14.5mil..

You got 10 CB making that type of money..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/4958515002

13 DT making 10 or more..

18 to 20 Cb doing that...

 

[Toomers]

6 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

You got 5 DT making over 14.5mil..

You got 10 CB making that type of money..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/4958515002

13 DT making 10 or more..

18 to 20 Cb doing that...

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/defensive-tackle/

No you have 6 DTs making over 15M/yr. 

4 of them more than the highest CB. Two by a WIDE margin, as previously mentioned. So bring up the higher salaries for CBs isn’t supported by anything unless someone believes your “slant” on the numbers. Keep trying....

 

[WOW!!]

1 minute ago, Toomers said:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/defensive-tackle/

No you have 6 DTs making over 15M/yr. 

4 of them more than the highest CB. Two by a WIDE margin, as previously mentioned. So bring up the higher salaries for CBs isn’t supported by anything unless someone believes your “slant” on the numbers. Keep trying....

 

Again do you understand just cause 1 player makes the highest doesn't mean that's the avg.. of the position..

There are more CB making that type number making the avg. Higher for that position...

https://overthecap.com/franchise-transition-and-rfa-tenders/

The CB franchise and transition tags are higher then DT.. That why Cb is considered a higher value position  ..

[Toomers]

11 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

Again do you understand just cause 1 player makes the highest doesn't mean that's the avg.. of the position..

There are more CB making that type number making the avg. Higher for that position...

https://overthecap.com/franchise-transition-and-rfa-tenders/

The CB franchise and transition tags are higher then DT.. That why Cb is considered a higher value position  ..

 And there are plenty of 3-4 5-techniques that would normally be considered as well with DTs And saving an extra 3.5M or 5.5M is quite a windfall when on a cheap deal. 
 

   Trying to compare 2 DTs on over half the teams to 2-3 CBs on every team isn’t the same. 
 

   That tag was before Buckner got 21M. What did the highest CB get?

[WOW!!]

1 hour ago, Toomers said:

 And there are plenty of 3-4 5-techniques that would normally be considered as well with DTs And saving an extra 3.5M or 5.5M is quite a windfall when on a cheap deal. 
 

   Trying to compare 2 DTs on over half the teams to 2-3 CBs on every team isn’t the same. 
 

   That tag was before Buckner got 21M. What did the highest CB get?

The highest CB isn't the best CB..

Bradberry got 15mil..

What does a avg. Dt get??