Jump to content

  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

Veterans beware

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

Recommended Posts

stbugs Grand Master

stbugs

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, MadHatter said:

It’s all good...I called you an idiot...you called me an idiot...and you were the right and I was wrong....the. We move on.

jyst a normal day on The Hudfle.

No worries was trying to not poke you again just replying to the other guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wes21 Mentor

Wes21

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Instead of dead cap space I call it what it is which is future cap space already allocated. Using any other term confuses what for many is already tough to understand.  Let me explain how it goes down. He is going to play this year no doubt. While I don't think we are going to win a ton of games, we will be competitive and I think better than expected. So once we keep him, the 6 million in potential dead cap space will be a non issue and his dead cap hit will go down in 2021 when his cap hit goes up and his dead cap hit would be manageable. Or if he has a good 2020 his contract could be restructured and that would change the numbers significantly. So what will his dead cap hit be in 2020?  0 dollars because he won't be cut.  It is only 6.3 million if he is cut and he won't be.  That is the reason why looking at all guaranteed money as dead cap space makes little sense. Both from a tracking point of view as well as from a predictive/ management strategy.

The $6.3M is there whether we have KK on the team or not.  The way you are attempting to explain it, makes it seem like the money disappears if we keep him.  It doesn't.  Calling it dead cap space is not the proper nomenclature, but its definitely a more accurate way to look at it. 

I'm out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Wes21 said:

The $6.3M is there whether we have KK on the team or not.  The way you are attempting to explain it, makes it seem like the money disappears if we keep him.  It doesn't.  Calling it dead cap space is not the proper nomenclature, but its definitely a more accurate way to look at it. 

I'm out.

The 6.3 million is already included in his cap hit for 2020. Of course it doesn't disappear. But unless he is cut it never becomes dead cap space  And it is much less accurate calling it dead cap space than calling it future cap space which is already being accounted for and tracked. Why you want to confuse things  makes no sense.  All future cap space includes both guaranteed and unguaranteed  money  and is a better way to think about and manage contracts. Unless you go on a tear like we did this year, dead cap space makes up a small percentage of the total cap. I know you think you came up with a clever way of tracking all guaranteed money but it isn't clever or even accurate since it may or may not actually become dead cap space. And there is little you could do with it analytically since it is conditional and can change with each player added or dropped. On the other hand, future cap space can be tracked and managed . Sure dead cap space can become an issue but is only a subset of all guaranteed money allocated in a particular season not close to  the same thing. And since it already accounted for in other ways why confuse it calling it something it may or not become and using inaccurate terms to do so???

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
stbugs Grand Master

stbugs

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Wes21 said:

The $6.3M is there whether we have KK on the team or not.  The way you are attempting to explain it, makes it seem like the money disappears if we keep him.  It doesn't.  Calling it dead cap space is not the proper nomenclature, but its definitely a more accurate way to look at it. 

I'm out.

He’s very pro team on every call so you won’t convince him. The fact that he thinks the dead cap in 2020 is $0 if we keep him and $6M if we release him means that he doesn’t get it. That’s why I get a bit frustrated in some of these cap discussions. People don’t get simple math and seem to think that having a player on the team somehow reduces dead cap when it’s there, just labeled differently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Madwolf Rising Star

Madwolf

Posted
Posted
On 5/26/2020 at 9:23 AM, kungfoodude said:

I think that was intentional. I am guessing they surmised that a locker room full of players that knew a lot more about professional football and what it takes to be successful weren't likely to mix well with a coaching staff that is going to have to learn all of that.

Young guys are gonna be more likely to buy in because they really don't know any better.

I don't really buy that. I buy that our team was super old, and super bad. You don't resign guys over the hill in the NFL to bad contracts when you're trying to rebuild to simply provide "veteran leadership."

Most of our older players were dead weight on our roster. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
thefuzz Mentor

thefuzz

Posted
Posted

There was never a better time to call KK about taking a pay cut.

You want to look for a new home now, or next season?  Either way, we aren't keeping you on the books this season at the current amount.

I think it's better to cut him now, and clear as much dead cap as possible this season...when we know we aren't competing, than just wait another year and take the hit then.

We will be able to find vet DT's much cheaper than KK is going to cost us this season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, stbugs said:

He’s very pro team on every call so you won’t convince him. The fact that he thinks the dead cap in 2020 is $0 if we keep him and $6M if we release him means that he doesn’t get it. That’s why I get a bit frustrated in some of these cap discussions. People don’t get simple math and seem to think that having a player on the team somehow reduces dead cap when it’s there, just labeled differently.

Dead cap space only applies if you cut a player or he retires. Plain and simple. Otherwise it is contained in his current cap cost as signing bonus, restructuring cost, roster bonus, etc. So if you keep a player on your roster do you incur a dead cap hit? No. So that means your dead cap hit was 0. Sure the 6.3 potential dead cap hit didn't go away nor did the 11 million next year if we cut him post June 1st. But we aren't going to do it so it isn't germaine this year  The 6.3 is already accounted for in his current cap hit of 19 million.   So stop acting as if you know something others don't. Maybe you would be less frustrated if you were more accurate and called things what they are instead of using terms incorrectly and acting as if you are some kind of cap guru.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • tukafan21
      something to feel good about in the offseason..."could be something special brewing in Carolina"

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      Just because all draft picks are a gamble doesn't mean you don't have a better chance at hitting on a better player the higher you're drafting. It would literally be like someone saying, I'll give you 1 or 2 free spins on a slot machine, and you say you'll take the 1 because you're not likely to win anything anyways with 1 or 2, so why bother? The Cowboys desperately wanted T-Mac, but because they were 4 picks behind us, they weren't able to get him.  If you told Cowboys fans that had they lost 2 more games last year in a lost season, that it would get them the player they wanted so badly, would they in retrospect go back and lose those games to get their guy? 95% of them would take that trade off in a heartbeat, and the others who wouldn't are the fans who would rather enjoy an extra win or two in a poo season to then set themselves up to be better for the next decade. I also think the fans who argue against this thinking, get too caught up in the "well that means you're going to be rooting against us late in the season even if we still have a shot at the playoffs." Which isn't true, it's saying if you're telling me right now we'd make the playoffs but lose in the first round, that I'd rather end up 8-9 or 9-8 and just miss the playoffs because in our opinion, the benefits that come along with that outweigh the benefit of the players getting 1 game of playoff experience.
    • frankw
      something to feel good about in the offseason..."could be something special brewing in Carolina"

      By frankw · Posted

      In relation to tanking. I think you can count on one hand the number of people here who actually want us to lose football games. When accounting for it across the fanbase it amounts to maybe 2% of the entire Panthers fanbase. But you engage with some internet trolls and think haters are coming out of the woodwork and hey look at that it's all a conspiracy that leads to Bryce Young haters. Do you hear yourself sir? If it sounds ridiculous that's because it is. I mean at this point do you see Bryce haters in your dreams? As far as the culture of this franchise goes we seem to be doing better in that department via what we are building right now and with the people we have in place. But we also shouldn't just make assumptions just yet either. The rubber still needs to meet the road. And going back to previous seasons I think we can acknowledge although tanking obviously isn't a thing there were some times where we thought our culture was improving but really it wasn't. Yes I'm looking directly at some of those wins under Wilks. If the culture had truly changed we would not have lost to the Steelers who have been mediocre for years at home the way we did and they were starting Mitch Trubisky ffs. We did not change our culture for the better and we won games that ultimately meant nothing. It was just a brief mirage. We've done this for years now. The harsh truth of the matter is the Panthers have not had a winning season or been to the playoffs in going on 8 years but in those years they've been trying to convince themselves they aren't poo but in the process all they've done throughout most of that time period is squander better draft position and we were still the worst team in the league for our troubles. At the end of the day we should be able to just be adults and reconcile with that. And no that isn't being "pro tank" or any other boogeyman term it's simply recognizing reality.
    • LinvilleGorge
      Well, the Niners just doomed themselves to mediocrity

      By LinvilleGorge · Posted

      He's an asset in a game manager role. But as soon as you have to ask him to go out there and try to make plays and not just take what the defense is giving him... well, Darnolding happens.
×
×
  • Create New...