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Veterans beware


Mr. Scot

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3 hours ago, MadHatter said:

It’s all good...I called you an idiot...you called me an idiot...and you were the right and I was wrong....the. We move on.

jyst a normal day on The Hudfle.

No worries was trying to not poke you again just replying to the other guy.

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10 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Instead of dead cap space I call it what it is which is future cap space already allocated. Using any other term confuses what for many is already tough to understand.  Let me explain how it goes down. He is going to play this year no doubt. While I don't think we are going to win a ton of games, we will be competitive and I think better than expected. So once we keep him, the 6 million in potential dead cap space will be a non issue and his dead cap hit will go down in 2021 when his cap hit goes up and his dead cap hit would be manageable. Or if he has a good 2020 his contract could be restructured and that would change the numbers significantly. So what will his dead cap hit be in 2020?  0 dollars because he won't be cut.  It is only 6.3 million if he is cut and he won't be.  That is the reason why looking at all guaranteed money as dead cap space makes little sense. Both from a tracking point of view as well as from a predictive/ management strategy.

The $6.3M is there whether we have KK on the team or not.  The way you are attempting to explain it, makes it seem like the money disappears if we keep him.  It doesn't.  Calling it dead cap space is not the proper nomenclature, but its definitely a more accurate way to look at it. 

I'm out.

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1 hour ago, Wes21 said:

The $6.3M is there whether we have KK on the team or not.  The way you are attempting to explain it, makes it seem like the money disappears if we keep him.  It doesn't.  Calling it dead cap space is not the proper nomenclature, but its definitely a more accurate way to look at it. 

I'm out.

The 6.3 million is already included in his cap hit for 2020. Of course it doesn't disappear. But unless he is cut it never becomes dead cap space  And it is much less accurate calling it dead cap space than calling it future cap space which is already being accounted for and tracked. Why you want to confuse things  makes no sense.  All future cap space includes both guaranteed and unguaranteed  money  and is a better way to think about and manage contracts. Unless you go on a tear like we did this year, dead cap space makes up a small percentage of the total cap. I know you think you came up with a clever way of tracking all guaranteed money but it isn't clever or even accurate since it may or may not actually become dead cap space. And there is little you could do with it analytically since it is conditional and can change with each player added or dropped. On the other hand, future cap space can be tracked and managed . Sure dead cap space can become an issue but is only a subset of all guaranteed money allocated in a particular season not close to  the same thing. And since it already accounted for in other ways why confuse it calling it something it may or not become and using inaccurate terms to do so???

 

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1 hour ago, Wes21 said:

The $6.3M is there whether we have KK on the team or not.  The way you are attempting to explain it, makes it seem like the money disappears if we keep him.  It doesn't.  Calling it dead cap space is not the proper nomenclature, but its definitely a more accurate way to look at it. 

I'm out.

He’s very pro team on every call so you won’t convince him. The fact that he thinks the dead cap in 2020 is $0 if we keep him and $6M if we release him means that he doesn’t get it. That’s why I get a bit frustrated in some of these cap discussions. People don’t get simple math and seem to think that having a player on the team somehow reduces dead cap when it’s there, just labeled differently.

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On 5/26/2020 at 9:23 AM, kungfoodude said:

I think that was intentional. I am guessing they surmised that a locker room full of players that knew a lot more about professional football and what it takes to be successful weren't likely to mix well with a coaching staff that is going to have to learn all of that.

Young guys are gonna be more likely to buy in because they really don't know any better.

I don't really buy that. I buy that our team was super old, and super bad. You don't resign guys over the hill in the NFL to bad contracts when you're trying to rebuild to simply provide "veteran leadership."

Most of our older players were dead weight on our roster. 

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There was never a better time to call KK about taking a pay cut.

You want to look for a new home now, or next season?  Either way, we aren't keeping you on the books this season at the current amount.

I think it's better to cut him now, and clear as much dead cap as possible this season...when we know we aren't competing, than just wait another year and take the hit then.

We will be able to find vet DT's much cheaper than KK is going to cost us this season.

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7 hours ago, stbugs said:

He’s very pro team on every call so you won’t convince him. The fact that he thinks the dead cap in 2020 is $0 if we keep him and $6M if we release him means that he doesn’t get it. That’s why I get a bit frustrated in some of these cap discussions. People don’t get simple math and seem to think that having a player on the team somehow reduces dead cap when it’s there, just labeled differently.

Dead cap space only applies if you cut a player or he retires. Plain and simple. Otherwise it is contained in his current cap cost as signing bonus, restructuring cost, roster bonus, etc. So if you keep a player on your roster do you incur a dead cap hit? No. So that means your dead cap hit was 0. Sure the 6.3 potential dead cap hit didn't go away nor did the 11 million next year if we cut him post June 1st. But we aren't going to do it so it isn't germaine this year  The 6.3 is already accounted for in his current cap hit of 19 million.   So stop acting as if you know something others don't. Maybe you would be less frustrated if you were more accurate and called things what they are instead of using terms incorrectly and acting as if you are some kind of cap guru.

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