tEddY brIdgEwAtEr cAn't thrOw dEEp

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, CatTower said:

Wouldn't this have more to do with O-Line/wanting to avoid getting hit?  Teddy has scrambling ability.

No. That N.O. system is designed to get the ball out FAST. That's why the average yards per completion are fairly low and the average time to throw (with Brees) is year in and year out at or near the top of the league. For reference, Teddy was tied in average time to throw with Patrick Mahomes who was #4 in the league in average yards per completion while Teddy was tied for 30th in that category.

I'm not trying to bash Teddy. I'm really not. He's not terrible, he's just below average pretty much across the board. If he plays like a legit starting caliber QB this season, then Joe Brady really is that dude... and he's likely going to be here for a very short time before he gets a HC gig.

[CatTower]

20 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

We wont lose enouh to get Lawrence

It's going to come down to the defense.  I'm pretty confident we'll average around 20 points scored, but do we have the pieces to stop other teams from scoring?

[LinvilleGorge]

22 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

We have a new coach, two new coordinators.  All three combined have had a cup of coffee in the nfl.  Our schedule is brutal.  We are relying on rookies, journeyman and 2nd year players on defense.  Our offensive line is one of the worst in the league.

 

All we have going for us is a good wr and really good rb.  

 

Our starting corners are eli apple and d Jackson.  

 

Now please tell me how we win 8 games

People keep concerning themselves with our LBs, but we at least know we have one quality starting LB in Shaq. Our CB corps is straight trash on paper. And that's just being honest.

[LinvilleGorge]

12 minutes ago, hepcat said:

In regards to Kyle Allen, he just had to figure out where one guy was half the time. It doesn't take very long to figure out where Christian McCaffrey is going to be on any given play.

Everything about that N.O. offense revolves around getting the ball out quickly. Teddy was in the bottom third of all QBs in average time to throw while playing in an offense literally designed around getting the ball out quickly.

[Moo Daeng]

I think you are trying to get too much out of time to throw numbers when it's far more complex than simply saying quick throws are better.  Wer'e talking about a differnce of less than .25 seconds between Brees and Bridgewater. 

Though it's clear some are just looking for anything they can spin to be negative. I don't know why that's so popular to do.

[CatTower]

5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Everything about that N.O. offense revolves around getting the ball out quickly. Teddy was in the bottom third of all QBs in average time to throw while playing in an offense literally designed around getting the ball out quickly.

What was his sack percentage though?  If he's not getting sacked, then waiting for best open wr doesn't seem bad.

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, CatTower said:

What was his sack percentage though?  If he's not getting sacked, then waiting for best open wr doesn't seem bad.

It's not great when the point of the offense is to get the ball out fast. If you're taking longer to throw, hopefully that's going to yield longer average completions - hence why Mahomes is also in the bottom third tied with Teddy in average time to throw, but he's in the top 5 in average yards per completion.

Lots of Panthers fans bemoaned how long Cam held the ball. The next gen stats only go back to 2016 so they don't include his MVP season, but...

2016 - 2.7 seconds, 13.0 ypc

2017 - 2.72 seconds, 11.3 ypc

2018 - 2.69 seconds, 10.6 ypc

You can definitely see the impact of the deteriorating shoulder in the average yards per completion over the years, but in all three years Cam was faster to deliver than Teddy was last year and before his shoulder fell apart he was averaging significantly more yards per completion. Last year when Teddy was tied for 23rd in the league in average time to throw of 2.82 in an offense designed to get the ball out fast, Cam's numbers would ranked him 10th for his 2016 time, 12th for 2017, and 10th again for 2018. Meanwhile, Cam is ranked 2nd among active NFL players in average yards per completion. I have no doubt he'd be 1st had the should not fallen apart. Teddy is tied for 26th.

There's a reason why Teddy has bounced around the league and the injury issue is only part of the story. QBs who push the ball down the field don't bounce around. Of the top 15 active guys in average yards per completion, only one of them (Matt Schaub) has played for more than one team. Cam, Mariota, and Dalton will become the second, third, and fourth off of that list once they suit up for their new teams this season. Still, that leaves 11 of the top 15 still playing for the team that drafted them. Only two of the next 13 guys (Wentz and Carr) are still playing for their original team. The list I'm going off of only goes 28 deep.

[panthers55]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Teddy Bridgewater in 2019 - 2.82 seconds average time to throw. Tied for 23rd in the NFL. Brees was 2nd in the same system. For reference, Kyle Allen was 11th.

Yeah but since the total range of time varied from Andrew Dalton at 2.51 to Kirk Cousins at 3.01 or a half of a second, rankings are a poor way of making comparisons. Plus getting the ball out isn't so much how fast you are processing information as it is whether the scheme and your players allow you to hit the primary read or do you have to scan the field for 2nd or 3rd options.  Brees and Brady are very good at reading defenses and changing the offense to take advantage of the defense so the primary receiver or the checkdown are available. Yet Brees was 2nd at 2.57 and Brady was 13th at 2.75.  or the blink of an eye. Do you think that was significant? Maybe Drew does mostly 3 step drops and Brady does 5. I don't know.......

[Moo Daeng]

3 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Yeah but since the total range of time varied from Andrew Dalton at 2.51 to Kirk Cousins at 3.01 or a half of a second, rankings are a poor way of making comparisons. Plus getting the ball out isn't so much how fast you are processing information as it is whether the scheme and your players allow you to hit the primary read or do you have to scan the field for 2nd or 3rd options.  Brees and Brady are very good at reading defenses and changing the offense to take advantage of the defense so the primary receiver or the checkdown are available. Yet Brees was 2nd at 2.57 and Brady was 13th at 2.75.  or the blink of an eye. Do you think that was significant? Maybe Drew does mostly 3 step drops and Brady does 5. I don't know.......

exactly, trying to take anything from that alone is silly

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's not great when the point of the offense is to get the ball out fast. If you're taking longer to throw, hopefully that's going to yield longer average completions - hence why Mahomes is also in the bottom third tied with Teddy in average time to throw, but he's in the top 5 in average yards per completion.

Lots of Panthers fans bemoaned how long Cam held the ball. The next gen stats only go back to 2016 so they don't include his MVP season, but...

2016 - 2.7 seconds, 13.0 ypc

2017 - 2.72 seconds, 11.3 ypc

2018 - 2.69 seconds, 10.6 ypc

You can definitely see the impact of the deteriorating shoulder in the average yards per completion over the years, but in all three years Cam was faster to deliver than Teddy was last year and before his shoulder fell apart he was averaging significantly more yards per completion. Last year when Teddy was tied for 23rd in the league in average time to throw of 2.82 in an offense designed to get the ball out fast, Cam's numbers would ranked him 10th for his 2016 time, 12th for 2017, and 10th again for 2018. Meanwhile, Cam is ranked 2nd among active NFL players in average yards per completion. I have no doubt he'd be 1st had the should not fallen apart. Teddy is tied for 26th.

There's a reason why Teddy has bounced around the league and the injury issue is only part of the story. QBs who push the ball down the field don't bounce around. Of the top 15 active guys in average yards per completion, only one of them (Matt Schaub) has played for more than one team. Cam, Mariota, and Dalton will become the second, third, and fourth off of that list once they suit up for their new teams this season. Still, that leaves 11 of the top 15 still playing for the team that drafted them. Only two of the next 13 guys (Wentz and Carr) are still playing for their original team. The list I'm going off of only goes 28 deep.

You have to look at how far the pass went and how many yards were after the catch. If you throw a checkdown and it goes the distance you could get credit for an 80 yard pass. Did that have anything to do with how long you held the ball or how accurate you were and how effective the receiver was once he caught it.

Averages also tell only half the story like in Cam's case he was more likely to hold the ball or try to make a play on  third down when teams blitzed him which exaggerated the sense he always held it. So his was more situational but often at bad times when he should have thrown it away or checked down. 

[Panther'sBigD]

2 hours ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

so basically between his time in minnesota and new orleans (and the brutal non-contact injury) there is very little evidence that this quarterback who will turn 28 during this season can consistently push the ball downfield at the professional level. got it.

So basically, he's been in a very similar situation what Cam was subjected to in the last few years, with a lot of the same shitty cast of characters, with even less to show for it. No one with a brain thinks he's can replace Cam, but shitting on him for his lack of deep throws is silly. 

[LinvilleGorge]

27 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Yeah but since the total range of time varied from Andrew Dalton at 2.51 to Kirk Cousins at 3.01 or a half of a second, rankings are a poor way of making comparisons. Plus getting the ball out isn't so much how fast you are processing information as it is whether the scheme and your players allow you to hit the primary read or do you have to scan the field for 2nd or 3rd options.  Brees and Brady are very good at reading defenses and changing the offense to take advantage of the defense so the primary receiver or the checkdown are available. Yet Brees was 2nd at 2.57 and Brady was 13th at 2.75.  or the blink of an eye. Do you think that was significant? Maybe Drew does mostly 3 step drops and Brady does 5. I don't know.......

It seems insignificant until you have an NFL edge rusher get around that tackle...

[LinvilleGorge]

19 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

You have to look at how far the pass went and how many yards were after the catch. If you throw a checkdown and it goes the distance you could get credit for an 80 yard pass. Did that have anything to do with how long you held the ball or how accurate you were and how effective the receiver was once he caught it.

Averages also tell only half the story like in Cam's case he was more likely to hold the ball or try to make a play on  third down when teams blitzed him which exaggerated the sense he always held it. So his was more situational but often at bad times when he should have thrown it away or checked down. 

There are outliers in every set of numbers. But how many checkdowns end up going for 80 yards? There just aren't enough of those types of outliers to drastically impact the averages at the end of the season. 

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, CatTower said:

Overrated?  So instead of a once in a decade player, he's more like a once in every 5 year player?  Face it.  Lawrence is the perfect mold.  If you built a QB in the lab, Lawrence would be that guy.  Not a single flaw.

I think it’s cooler to diss him and act like he’s not good. I’d be ecstatic to have him as our QB. There is no guarantee but he’s absolutely one of the top rated QBs to come out in a while. This isn’t Mariotta/Winston or Darnold/Mayfield. Lawrence is a potential Peyton Manning. IMHO, I would have went all out for the chance to have a potential pro-bowl QB for 10+ years.

If somehow Fields or Lance passed him then it will be because they had unbelievable years, not because Lawrence is overrated.