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"Teddy will never be good enough" crowd

Jeremy Igo

By Jeremy Igo,
in Carolina Panthers

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KSpan Grand Master

KSpan

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Brady and Montana both won multiple Super Bowls with what most would consider lesser arm strength. Heck, even Brad Johnson got a ring.

A West Coast system just doesn't need it. Sure, it's still better to have it but if you build the right team, it's not absolutely essential.

Brady chucked the ball 50 yards through the air leaning backward Sunday (completion to Godwin) at 43 years old and Montana (who was one of the best ever, not disputing that) had some of the best defenses ever on top of some of the most loaded pre-salary cap era offenses ever and was from a different era of football overall. Your arguments don't hold water.

Regarding Brad Johnson (and Dilfer, and 2015 Manning) he rode a truly elite defense the whole way. That is a valid way to win but it's so hard to count on.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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3 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Brady chucked the ball 50 yards through the air leaning backward Sunday (completion to Godwin) at 43 years old and Montana (who was one of the best ever, not disputing that) had some of the best defenses ever on top of some of the most loaded pre-salary cap era offenses ever and was from a different era of football overall. Your arguments don't hold water.

Regarding Brad Johnson (and Dilfer, and 2015 Manning) he rode a truly elite defense the whole way. That is a valid way to win but it's so hard to count on.

And that's the thing, you have to build a team.

A very few teams are lucky enough to get a quarterback like Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes that's the whole package. The rest of us are going to be dealing with some kind of limitation.

Lesser arm strength is a very typical one. For some that do have a strong armed quarterback, their accuracy might be suspect. But regardless of what the limitation is, you have to be smart enough to find a way to work around it.

Heck, even if you do have a great quarterback, you've still got to have a good enough team around them. Ssk Manning why he doesn't have as many rings as Brady.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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14 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Cousins can be better than Teddy.

He can also be worse than Mark Sanchez.

So can Teddy, as seen on Sunday and earlier this year against the Bears. I'd rather a guy fail while trying to win than fail while throwing two yard passes on 3rd and 13 to a blanketed receiver and proclaiming after the game that he would've checked out of a play that produced a wide open WR in the endzone to a run if given the time to do so.

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KSpan Grand Master

KSpan

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Just now, Mr. Scot said:

And that's the thing, you have to build a team.

A very few teams are lucky enough to get a quarterback like Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes that's the whole package. The rest of us are going to be dealing with some kind of limitation.

Lesser arm strength is a very typical one. For some that do have a strong armed quarterback, their accuracy might be suspect. But regardless of what the limitation is, you have to be smart enough to find a way to work around it.

Heck, even if you do have a great quarterback, you've still got to have a good enough team around them. Ssk Manning why he doesn't have as many rings as Brady.

No disagreement there and no one is saying to just swap Teddy with someone else and leave the rest alone. That's what keeps getting lost here - build the team while also replacing with a more dynamic QB. More ways to win so as not to turn into the Saints these past 7 or so years. 

That would be uncharted winning territory for Carolina of course but the goal is to win an SB, not just him into the playoffs and not have the mustard to win it all.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

So can Teddy, as seen on Sunday and earlier this year against the Bears. I'd rather a guy fail while trying to win than fail while throwing two yard passes on 3rd and 13 to a blanketed receiver and proclaiming after the game that he would've checked out of a play that produced a wide open WR in the endzone to a run if given the time to do so.

And again, this is another argument of why he's better suited to be a backup.

In that role, you might see him coming in and occasionally trying to win a game without having to worry about his limitations as a starter.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

And again, this is another argument of why he's better suited to be a backup.

In that role, you might see him coming in and occasionally trying to win a game without having to worry about his limitations as a starter.

If we were paying Teddy good backup QB money I'd have no issue with it.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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2 minutes ago, KSpan said:

No disagreement there and no one is saying to just swap Teddy with someone else and leave the rest alone. That's what keeps getting lost here - build the team while also replacing with a more dynamic QB. More ways to win so as not to turn into the Saints these past 7 or so years. 

That would be uncharted winning territory for Carolina of course but the goal is to win an SB, not just him into the playoffs and not have the mustard to win it all.

And leads us back to the debate of whether we try to go after the quarterback first or try to build a team that a young guy can step into.

Oy...

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

If we were paying Teddy good backup QB money I'd have no issue with it.

My belief on that contract is that they were paying him bridge quarterback money but also hedging their bets that maybe he'd be good enough for something bigger.

At this point, about the only way you could slide him into a backup roll would be to find some way to reduce that salary, and I have a hard time imagining that happening.

If he takes a backup role, it'll probably be with somebody else (Saints would make a lot of sense).

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

And leads us back to the debate of whether we try to go after the quarterback first or try to build a team that a young guy can step into.

Oy...

You don't have the freedom to try to choose IMO. When given the opportunity to draft a guy who you think is a franchise QB you have to pounce. Once you get that roster sufficiently built you may not have that opportunity presents itself again.

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

Posted
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29 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Using the 20 air yard metric for 'deep' passing, according to the link below:

For LSU last season, Burrow completed 44 of 78 deep passes (20 or more air yards) for 1,689 yards, 1,276 air yards, 22 touchdowns, and two interceptions.

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/09/18/joe-burrow-and-the-deep-ball/

An average of 29 air yards per deep completion and 5 or so deep shots a game (not sure how many games that includes).

 

Well, there it is. Brady is trying to play to Teddy's strengths...or not play to his weaknesses! 

I think this means that we're going to draft a QB!

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

You don't have the freedom to try to choose IMO. When given the opportunity to draft a guy who you think is a franchise QB you have to pounce. Once you get that roster sufficiently built you may not have that opportunity presents itself again.

I don't know that we have that opportunity this year.

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ChibCU Experienced

ChibCU

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Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

You don't have the freedom to try to choose IMO. When given the opportunity to draft a guy who you think is a franchise QB you have to pounce. Once you get that roster sufficiently built you may not have that opportunity presents itself again.

It is preferable to build the supporting roster then reap the rewards of a rookie QB contract from the start. If  you do it the other way, you get about one year on a cheap rookie deal and then you have to pay the man a hefty contract.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Just now, ChibCU said:

It is preferable to build the supporting roster then reap the rewards of a rookie QB contract from the start. If  you do it the other way, you get about one year on a cheap rookie deal and then you have to pay the man a hefty contract.

This is true, and it's the direction a lot of NFL teams are going.

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