Joe Schoen

[NAS]

As an assistant GM, there is perception among Bills fans that Beane relies pretty heavily on Schoen for talent evaluation (especially in the draft). They’re concerned about losing him.

Schoen was the first front office hire that Beane made in 2017. He was previously player personnel director for Miami Dolphins.

Me like it

Update: Schoen was also a member of the Panthers scouting department from 2001-2007.

[LinvilleGorge]

I don't have a super strong opinion on the GM search. I just want someone who can evaluate talent and who will bring a different wrinkle than what the staff and scouts bring. I'm intrigued by the Browns' analytics guy as long as he's not so beholden to the analytics that he doesn't value the input of the staff and scouts. I mean, if you're looking at draft prospects, the analytics from someone playing in the Sunbelt Conference isn't exactly comparing apples to apples vs. someone else playing in a power 5 conference. As much as I'm a numbers guy you can't math your way through everything.

[NAS]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't have a super strong opinion on the GM search. I just want someone who can evaluate talent and who will bring a different wrinkle than what the staff and scouts bring. I'm intrigued by the Browns' analytics guy as long as he's not so beholden to the analytics that he doesn't value the input of the staff and scouts. I mean, if you're looking at draft prospects, the analytics from someone playing in the Sunbelt Conference isn't exactly comparing apples to apples vs. someone else playing in a power 5 conference. As much as I'm a numbers guy you can't math your way through everything.

I hear you but I think deep analytics is supposed to account for all variables related to level of competition and who you’re playing with. It should be a part of the evaluation process but not the overriding factor.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, NAS said:

I hear you but I think deep analytics is supposed to account for all variables related to level of competition and who you’re playing with. It should be a part of the evaluation process but not the overriding factor.

That's the problem with it, you have to slap a numerical value on something that really isn't quantifiable. It's a complete shot in the dark. It's like the professor who taught me almost everything I know about forecasting explained to me how to account for variability in a forecast. He basically said that the academic answer is to look at historical data, market conditions, predicted blah, blah, blah. The real world answer is that it's purely a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess). Once you're been in the market for awhile you just develop a gut feel for it. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong. That's the thing about forecasting - you're ALWAYS wrong. You're just trying to be the least amount of wrong you can possibly be but there will always be variables that pop up that you couldn't have possibly accounted for and that's why forecasts always have to be tweaked on the fly.

/end unrelated rambling

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't have a super strong opinion on the GM search. I just want someone who can evaluate talent and who will bring a different wrinkle than what the staff and scouts bring. I'm intrigued by the Browns' analytics guy as long as he's not so beholden to the analytics that he doesn't value the input of the staff and scouts. I mean, if you're looking at draft prospects, the analytics from someone playing in the Sunbelt Conference isn't exactly comparing apples to apples vs. someone else playing in a power 5 conference. As much as I'm a numbers guy you can't math your way through everything.

You know that video you just love of the Bills war room laughing at the Panthers for drafting Greg Little?

Schoen is the guy high giving everybody.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

You know that video you just love of the Bills war room laughing at the Panthers for drafting Greg Little?

Schoen is the guy high giving everybody.

Oof.

[Shocker]

But does he do analytics?

[Khyber53]

1 hour ago, NAS said:

 

Update: Schoen was also a member of the Panthers scouting department from 2001-2007.

I think that with the removal of Marty Hurney it is of vital importance that we completely overhaul the scouting department as well. Perhaps that is already happening, I don't know, but it seems we need to be able to pick more than a 1st round winner if we're going to build this to last.

And a big part of that is scouting free agents. We had a couple of wins, but man our misses this year were pretty bad. 

[DeAngelo Beason]

I really just don't see how GMs make that big of a difference .  Everyone talks about evaluating talent, but seriously, who would be better than a head coach at evaluating the talent of the people he wants to bring in?  Seems like the teams with coach GMs are always a step ahead.  Might just be a misperception of mine.

[NAS]

9 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I really just don't see how GMs make that big of a difference .  Everyone talks about evaluating talent, but seriously, who would be better than a head coach at evaluating the talent of the people he wants to bring in?  Seems like the teams with coach GMs are always a step ahead.  Might just be a misperception of mine.

Definitely a misperception. Bellichick has had horrible drafts the last 5 years. Bill O’Brien also did a bad job and basically screwed the Texans out of a top 3 pick this year.  Division of duties works best but head coach should have meaningful input.

[LinvilleGorge]

16 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I really just don't see how GMs make that big of a difference .  Everyone talks about evaluating talent, but seriously, who would be better than a head coach at evaluating the talent of the people he wants to bring in?  Seems like the teams with coach GMs are always a step ahead.  Might just be a misperception of mine.

That's because teams with coaches with final roster say by and large are teams with absolutely elite HCs. They didn't get handed that power for no reason. The ones that did largely fell flat on their faces (Chip Kelly and most recently Bill O'Brien come to mind). It's really hard to keep all of those juggling balls in the air of the full duties of a HC and a GM. Developing players, developing game plans, handling daily practices, evaluating the current roster, evaluating FAs, evaluating incoming draft prosects, managing the salary cap, etc. It's a LOT. There's a reason why the two roles have historically been separated except for a few elite folks. Even those few elite folks are heavily relying on others being the scenes (scouts, cap specialists, etc.). Belichick is always upheld as the gold standard but the Pats have low key sucked at drafting for awhile now.

[NAS]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's because teams with coaches with final roster say by and large are teams with absolutely elite HCs. They didn't get handed that power for no reason. The ones that did largely fell flat on their faces (Chip Kelly and most recently Bill O'Brien come to mind). It's really hard to keep all of those juggling balls in the air of the full duties of a HC and a GM. Developing players, developing game plans, handling daily practices, evaluating the current roster, evaluating FAs, evaluating incoming draft prosects, managing the salary cap, etc. It's a LOT. There's a reason why the two roles have historically been separated except for a few elite folks. Even those few elite folks are heavily relying on others being the scenes (scouts, cap specialists, etc.). Belichick is always upheld as the gold standard but the Pats have low key sucked at drafting for awhile now.

Agree with everything except it's not "lowkey" that Bellichick has sucked. He was grilled by reporters about why few of his draft picks have panned out in the last 5 years.

[theinstrumental]

1 hour ago, NAS said:

I hear you but I think deep analytics is supposed to account for all variables related to level of competition and who you’re playing with. It should be a part of the evaluation process but not the overriding factor.

You can’t account for every variable. It’s essential to understand what the model (or whatever you’re looking at) doesn’t know. That’s the difference between an analyst or an expert and a dude with a model. Tepper’s not going to hire a dude with a model.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, NAS said:

Agree with everything except it's not "lowkey" that Bellichick has sucked. He was grilled by reporters about why few of his draft picks have panned out in the last 5 years.

Yeah, I'm sure it's not low key for the local media but I can't say I pay any attention at all to the Boston area media. National sports media pretty much glosses over it to fawn over Belichick's sheer greatness in all things football.