Muhammad is talking too

[Zod]

moose is exactly right. Arizona didn't bail on Warner when he threw 6 picks against us, they put him in and he threw 5 Tds the next week.

What would they have done if Warner threw 13 picks and 1 TD within several games?

[Ranger1]

1 TD to a WR, not just 1 TD. He's thrown 4 TD's to TE's. That's a total of FIVE touchdowns. I know you guys hate him, but at least state his stats correctly.

[2jakefansinva]

Hey Moose.......when they put 8 in the box and shade the coverage over to Smith's side the other WR has to beat his man.

[Hairless Cat]

whats the completion rate for passes to Moose this year and how many are on Delhomme?

[Kevin Greene]

What would they have done if Warner threw 13 picks and 1 TD within several games?

You'd also have to reverse what hapened in Charlotte last year when Warner came to town.

Panthers 34-13, move on in the Playoffs.

[pstall]

Too bad there isn't a search option because over the summer I mentioned how this was NOT a good WR corp. Oh but that's tinfoil hat wearing pstall.

Your welcome

[panthers55]

What would they have done if Warner threw 13 picks and 1 TD within several games?

I suspect they would evaluate why the balls were getting intercepted and change the play-calling to account for it. For example if Warner were getting intercepted because he was going over the middle as a third read too late, they would call more slants and timing plays or give him some better dump off options on the wings or short. If Warner were staring down a receiver they would use more quick hitter or misdirection plays to throw the safeties off so they couldn't key on Warner's eyes as much.

In the end they would continue to throw because that is what they do. But they would game-plan for Warner's strengths and abilities until he got his confidence back. anyone who has ever played football at any level knows that confidence and the mental part is key to success especially for a quarterback. If he gets too gun shy and can't pull the trigger when he needs to, it leads to more turnovers than just slinging the ball.

[Phil Dees]

Too bad there isn't a search option because over the summer I mentioned how this was NOT a good WR corp. Oh but that's tinfoil hat wearing pstall.

Your welcome

Top of the page, where it says "Search".

[pstall]

Top of the page, where it says "Search".

:blush2:

[CRA]

What would they have done if Warner threw 13 picks and 1 TD within several games?

Matt would be playing.

It ain't like Warner hasn't been benched before for poor play.....and his resume has always been better than Jakes. So the logic they would have stuck w/ him doesn't hold much water......

[Mr. Scot]

Moose is right, but he's also not.

We can't win consistently running the offense like we're scared to pass.

Unfortunately, Delhomme's play this year has given us reason to be scared to pass.

[rayzor]

we let jake throw...we lose games.

we keep jake from throwing...we lose games.

one way or another, we are going to keep losing games.

they have two choices if they don't want to keep losing games.

1) let jake throw and throw caution into the wind. you have faith in him and believe that he is the best QB on the roster, then let him do his thing. you believe he was worth giving that extension to, back it up with letting him throw.

2) take jake out. if jake isn't the long term answer here, then take an honest look a the two backups on your roster to see if a solution is there before you go outside the org. to find the next one. this idea would have been better had they not screwed up and IRed mccown. still worth a shot, though.

continuing the same course is just showing you are backed up into a corner and you are giving up. doesn't matter how good out run game is if that is all we are going to do. one dimensional offenses are easy to prepare for. it may work for a little while but they will find a way to stop it. that is what teams who want to win do, they adjust to give themselves a better chance of winning. it's a shame that we can't/won't do that.

[panthers55]

Matt would be playing.

It ain't like Warner hasn't been benched before for poor play.....and his resume has always been better than Jakes. So the logic they would have stuck w/ him doesn't hold much water......

NO Leinert wouldn't be playing because when he came in he was worse than Warner. In 2006 Warner came in and finished the season when Leinert was hurt. They gave the job back to Leinert in 2007 and after sucking largely for 5 games and untimately getting hurt again, Warner came in and won 5 out of the last 8 games. In 2008 Warner was named the starter and hasn't looked back. They realized that as much as they wanted it, Leinert wasn't the heir apparent similar to Moore.

Agree that the comparisons aren't close because their Matt is a first rounder while our is an undrafted free agent. Moore isn't as good as Leinert so he isn't considered good enough to replace Jake where Leinert was given the chance based on his draft position and college success.

[panthers55]

Moose is right, but he's also not.

We can't win consistently running the offense like we're scared to pass.

Unfortunately, Delhomme's play this year has given us reason to be scared to pass.

we let jake throw...we lose games.

we keep jake from throwing...we lose games.

one way or another, we are going to keep losing games.

they have two choices if they don't want to keep losing games.

1) let jake throw and throw caution into the wind. you have faith in him and believe that he is the best QB on the roster, then let him do his thing. you believe he was worth giving that extension to, back it up with letting him throw.

2) take jake out. if jake isn't the long term answer here, then take an honest look a the two backups on your roster to see if a solution is there before you go outside the org. to find the next one. this idea would have been better had they not screwed up and IRed mccown. still worth a shot, though.

continuing the same course is just showing you are backed up into a corner and you are giving up. doesn't matter how good out run game is if that is all we are going to do. one dimensional offenses are easy to prepare for. it may work for a little while but they will find a way to stop it. that is what teams who want to win do, they adjust to give themselves a better chance of winning. it's a shame that we can't/won't do that.

There is a third option to this all or nothing black and white thinking so rampant on this board.

Start off like we have been which is run the ball and pass with safe, high percentage pass plays to move the ball and back off the safeties. Evaluate the defense and see what they doing and more importantly evaluate how Jake is doing. We all know that the first quarter almost always tells the tale of the tape. If he comes out hot he usually stays that way. If he comes out cold and inaccurate we may be in for a long day.

Adjust based on what is working and how Jake is doing. For example against new Orleans he was accurate both short and deep so air it out more and let him play. If he wasn't accurate or on target dial it back and use the shorter to intermediate throws.

Evaluate the defense. Atlanta's corners aren't that good and don't fight well for the ball. They get burned on double moves for example. Take what they are giving us. Throw when they expect us to run, and run when they expect us to pass. Mix it up instead of always throwing on third down after we get stuffed on 2 runs in first and second down. Stop being so predictable which would help Jake not have to make plays in obvious situations when that isn't his strong suit.

Finally, figure out how to run plays which pressure the defense and spread them out so once in a while we have a guy wide open instead of always covered by one or two guys. Play calling can help Jake instead of always trying to protect him.