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Deangelo Williams and Gary Barnidge on Cam and yesterday's game

PanthersATL

By PanthersATL,
in Carolina Panthers

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Catsfan69 Grand Master

Catsfan69

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

He has been injured (or had COVID) for what amounts to 3 straight years, lol.  The fact he is still at all on these lists is a testament to how productive he was up to 2018.  

Derek Carr and Ryan Tannehill are above average passers that are not elite QBs because that is all they can bring to the offense, basically.  If they had Cam's mobility, they would be elite. Tannehill has been in the league 1 less year but has 50 less TDs than Cam.  Carr has about 2 seasons less starts than Cam and has 70 less TDs.  Purely from a passing perspective yes they aren't that different.  But those are 2 pretty good starting QBs in the NFL from a purely passing perspective.  That's the thing tho, that is a major limitation for both.

The vast majority of Cams rushing TDs could have simply been handed to Jstew.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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19 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

The vast majority of Cams rushing TDs could have simply been handed to Jstew.

This is your opinion, but I don't think that is true personally.  The threat of Cam running also created opportunities for backs because it was hard to account for everyone IMO, especially given Cam's threat to pass.  It is hard to evaluate this given how much Stew and Cam's careers (as well as DWill's, and Tolbert's) overlapped so much, but all we have to go off of is the fact that Cam did score those TDs...

I suppose we could look at when Stew and Cam didn't play together, but it was a similar roster as when they did play together (aka I don't think it helps to compare 2010 Stew to some year where it was Stew + Cam later on).  In 2014, Stew played a couple games without Cam and didn't get a rushing TD, but had 4 on the season with Cam (including playoffs).  Cam had 6 on the season.  Doesn't really seem like Cam was dropping his TD numbers.

edit: to me, this is a similar argument to "well we should discount some of those passing TDs because they could have been rushing TDs", lol.  Like... the TDs happened... the QB is how they did... Who cares if some other player could have scored instead...

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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54 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Yes but at quick glance for QBs that have been in the league 7 years or more he is 1 td pass out of  next to last place among career leaders. Tannehill has 190 and Carr has 185.

So with way more seasons he's killing the esteemed duo of Ryan and Derek. LMAO

 

and he has 72 rushing TDs.  Which somehow don't count in the NFL. Which is the most in NFL history by a QB.    There is only one ball and one endzone.   So he would be a better QB if he simply scored all his TDs in your preferred manner. 

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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50 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

The vast majority of Cams rushing TDs could have simply been handed to Jstew.

Cam has the 9th best career ypc in NFL history.  It's not like his career is a highlight reel of 1 yard dives.  

I broke it down a long time ago when people falsely claimed Cam was basically just a 1 yard TD vulture.  Facts didn't back it then.  I don't have the energy to prove that isn't the case again. 

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Catsfan69 Grand Master

Catsfan69

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15 minutes ago, CRA said:

and he has 72 rushing TDs.  Which somehow don't count in the NFL. Which is the most in NFL history by a QB.    There is only one ball and one endzone.   So he would be a better QB if he simply scored all his TDs in your preferred manner. 

He's a great Football player. How many times do I need to say that.

Just not a HOF QB.

 

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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19 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

He's a great Football player. How many times do I need to say that.

Just not a HOF QB.

 

I thought you said he was just an average QB.  So now you have at least moved the bar up to not a HOF QB? I'll take that I guess.  

and when his career is done, there might be a HOF arguement.   Again, he would be unique in terms of QBs and will have done things that will sit in the record books likely for decades and decades.   Cam was the true start of a new era in the NFL.  And that might get properly acknowledged later down the road pending how his career ends. 

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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2 minutes ago, CRA said:

I thought you said he was just an average QB.  So now you have at least moved the bar up to not a HOF QB? I'll take that I guess.  

and when his career is done, there might be a HOF arguement.   Again, he would be unique in terms of QBs and will have done things that will sit in the record books likely for decades and decades.   Cam was the true starts of a new era in the NFL.  And that might get properly acknowledged later down the road pending how his career ends. 

First ballot HoF. Narrow-minded people like this boomer who still believes the game either shouldn't or isn't evolving (including the QB position) will have a problem with that and will argue till they die, but it won't change the fact that he brought in a new era of QBs who play the position differently adding more dimensions and excitement to the game.

For that and all the records he beat early on and those he set throughout his career will put him in as soon as he is eligible.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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7 minutes ago, rayzor said:

First ballot HoF. Narrow-minded people like this boomer who still believes the game either shouldn't or isn't evolving (including the QB position) will have a problem with that and will argue till they die, but it won't change the fact that he brought in a new era of QBs who play the position differently adding more dimensions and excitement to the game.

For that and all the records he beat early on and those he set throughout his career will put him in as soon as he is eligible.

Cam always faces incredible hate.  From college, to day one of the NFL, through his entire NFL career...

HOF consideration would be more of the same IMO.   I mean, look who votes for it.  Same type people that have always loved to kick Cam. 

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Catsfan69 Grand Master

Catsfan69

Posted
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14 minutes ago, CRA said:

I thought you said he was just an average QB.  So now you have at least moved the bar up to not a HOF QB? I'll take that I guess.  

and when his career is done, there might be a HOF arguement.   Again, he would be unique in terms of QBs and will have done things that will sit in the record books likely for decades and decades.   Cam was the true starts of a new era in the NFL.  And that might get properly acknowledged later down the road pending how his career ends. 

Great Football player

Good to pretty good QB

The reason I say not HOF is simply because people ITT have called him a HOF QB .

And people on this board act like  He's 2nd all time just behind Brady.

 I have no problem with Cam. Great human being I love what he does with the children in the community great teammate great leader Is very good football player still definitely is a great addition to the team I just have problems with the people on this board that make him out to be more  than what  He is.

 

 

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Catsfan69 Grand Master

Catsfan69

Posted
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12 minutes ago, rayzor said:

First ballot HoF. Narrow-minded people like this boomer who still believes the game either shouldn't or isn't evolving (including the QB position) will have a problem with that and will argue till they die, but it won't change the fact that he brought in a new era of QBs who play the position differently adding more dimensions and excitement to the game.

For that and all the records he beat early on and those he set throughout his career will put him in as soon as he is eligible.

 Is Russell Wilson 1st ballad hall of fame?

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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8 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

 Is Russell Wilson 1st ballad hall of fame?

*ballot

Wouldn't surprise me. Would surprise me more if he wasn't. He doesn't have the records Cam has but 1 ring, 2 Superbowl appearances, 10 probowls, and all the other stuff he's done....yeah he's in. 

Not sure what that's got to do with Cam, though.

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Catsfan69 Grand Master

Catsfan69

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Just now, rayzor said:

*ballot

Wouldn't surprise me. Would surprise me more if he wasn't. He doesn't have the records Cam has but 1 ring, 2 Superbowl appearances, 10 probowls, and all the other stuff he's done....yeah he's in. 

Not sure what that's got to do with Cam, though.

 I'm using talk to text so sometimes it doesn't translate correctly If what it has to do with Cam is Russell is a better quarterback than Cam he has more touchdowns than Cam.

 

 That if you didn't say he was 1st ballot I would call your ratings suspect because he is superior to Cam with less ability

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