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Deangelo Williams and Gary Barnidge on Cam and yesterday's game

PanthersATL

By PanthersATL,
in Carolina Panthers

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Noon. Not in NFL history.

I'm not putting him ahead of.

 Larry  Csonka

Earl Campbell 

Emmitt Smith

Jerome Bettis

Walter Payton.

I could probably pick 15 more guys ahead of him

Cam Newton is easily a greater short yardage threat than any of them.   It isn't really close.   Because Cam has a blocking advantage in the run game over a traditional RB....and the opponent still has to play the pass. 

You need one yard.  Cam is the toughest threat.  It is what it is.   lol at Emmitt Smith.  Cam is 6ft 5 in and a genentic freak on top of the above. 

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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6 minutes ago, CRA said:

You simply choose to ignore and deem irrelvent everything about Cam that made him elite and special...to diminsh him. 

Throw all this passing TDs out the window for a minute and deem them void.  One player has found the endzone more than Cam in Carolina history without his passing TDs.  1.  And Cam likely jumps him this year.   Cam is a monster.   To dismiss all that he brings for your arguement, that you have to play like Tom Brady or it doesn't, count is utterly silly. 

QB is a much bigger job than just being a passer. always has been. Cam just made it even bigger.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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1 hour ago, Catsfan69 said:

But he's always been average to below average as a passer.

Passing the ball is the mark of a QB.

You need a passer to win a championship. 

this isn't true.  He is not an "elite passer" alone, but he was good/above average as a passer, and he was an excellent to elite QB (may still be - hope so - he's certainly much better than what we had).  Remember Cam set records for his passing in his rookie year too.  He has impressive passing numbers but the fact he's always been a dominant rusher meant that his passing alone was never his only strength.  2015 was probably the only near-complete team we put around him, gave him a sold OL, and he decimated the league.  

but we can't act like he is below average at passing, because he isn't.  Among active players, Cam is 10th overall in passing yards among active players, 12th in TDs, 8th in Profootball Reference's approximate value, 11th in PASSING tds...  He spent most of his career here with... not very good WRs, and an OL that had him running quite a bit.  He also never had a particularly good OC when he was healthy after Chud left.

finally... as far as most people care, the hallmark of a good QB is 1) moving the ball, 2) scoring the ball, and 3) protecting the ball.  Cam was very good in all these areas in his career here.

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Catsfan69 Grand Master

Catsfan69

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15 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

this isn't true.  He is not an "elite passer" alone, but he was good/above average as a passer, and he was an excellent to elite QB (may still be - hope so - he's certainly much better than what we had).  Remember Cam set records for his passing in his rookie year too.  He has impressive passing numbers but the fact he's always been a dominant rusher meant that his passing alone was never his only strength.  2015 was probably the only near-complete team we put around him, gave him a sold OL, and he decimated the league.  

but we can't act like he is below average at passing, because he isn't.  Among active players, Cam is 10th overall in passing yards among active players, 12th in TDs, 8th in Profootball Reference's approximate value, 11th in PASSING tds...  He spent most of his career here with... not very good WRs, and an OL that had him running quite a bit.  He also never had a particularly good OC when he was healthy after Chud left.

finally... as far as most people care, the hallmark of a good QB is 1) moving the ball, 2) scoring the ball, and 3) protecting the ball.  Cam was very good in all these areas in his career here.

Look at his td to int ratio for every year except 2015.

One great season. One

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Darvinsun Collaborator

Darvinsun

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17 hours ago, Catsfan69 said:

Being Duel was frowned upon?

Tell that to Tarkenton, Staubach, Elway, Young, Cunningham, McNair and on and on and on.

It's never been frowned on.

 

It has been frown upon. When it comes to black qbs they always want to put running first. How many of those were looked at as great qbs? Just like you said Cam is not Brees, Brady. It is frown upon. Half of the time people don't  even count the running touchdowns.  Don't  act like it does not exist bc it does. Especially when it comes to trying to measure what Cam does.   It is why there is just now an emergence of duel qbs. Everyone seemed to think that the traditional dropback passer was the only way to really succeed as a qb. Those guys you mention were outliers in talking heads minds. Now you can succeed playing both styles. Half of the young qbs now are mobile.

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Darvinsun Collaborator

Darvinsun

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19 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Look at his td to int ratio for every year except 2015.

One great season. One

Interception stats not a very good thing to look at bc stats don't tell the whole story, wr tipped the ball. If it's tipped at the line. I get Cam made mistakes throwing especially with the highs, but for the most part his throws were good and some just amazing. What he lacks in one area he can make up in another. He is a rhythm passes so when he is on he is on and when he is not well its bad.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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18 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Look at his td to int ratio for every year except 2015.

One great season. One

TD/INT ratio is virtually worthless, but you also can't ignore his rushing TDs because it is something unique he brings...  He had one elite season, and multiple great seasons as a QB.  You simply can't look at Cam as a QB and ignore his rushing abilities... the same way you can't look at Kyler or Lamar and ignore them.

His TD% thrown is middle of the pack but his TDs scored is top 12 of all active players and he's 11th overall in passing TDs.  He's above average as a passer and elite threat on the ground (seemingly still elite on the ground).  

 

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Catsfan69 Grand Master

Catsfan69

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52 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

TD/INT ratio is virtually worthless, but you also can't ignore his rushing TDs because it is something unique he brings...  He had one elite season, and multiple great seasons as a QB.  You simply can't look at Cam as a QB and ignore his rushing abilities... the same way you can't look at Kyler or Lamar and ignore them.

His TD% thrown is middle of the pack but his TDs scored is top 12 of all active players and he's 11th overall in passing TDs.  He's above average as a passer and elite threat on the ground (seemingly still elite on the ground).  

 

Yes but at quick glance for QBs that have been in the league 7 years or more he is 1 td pass out of  next to last place among career leaders. Tannehill has 190 and Carr has 185.

So with way more seasons he's killing the esteemed duo of Ryan and Derek. LMAO

 

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Yes but at quick glance for QBs that have been in the league 7 years or more he is 1 td pass out of  next to last place among career leaders. Tannehill has 190 and Carr has 185.

So with way more seasons he's killing the esteemed duo of Ryan and Derek. LMAO

 

He has been injured (or had COVID) for what amounts to 3 straight years, lol.  The fact he is still at all on these lists is a testament to how productive he was up to 2018.  

Derek Carr and Ryan Tannehill are above average passers that are not elite QBs because that is all they can bring to the offense, basically.  If they had Cam's mobility, they would be elite. Tannehill has been in the league 1 less year but has 50 less TDs than Cam.  Carr has about 2 seasons less starts than Cam and has 70 less TDs.  Purely from a passing perspective yes they aren't that different.  But those are 2 pretty good starting QBs in the NFL from a purely passing perspective.  That's the thing tho, that is a major limitation for both.

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