How dangerous is Willis as a runner? What makes him special?

[mrcompletely11]

6 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Matter of fact PFF just mocked him to us a hour or so ago

Wow a mock draft to argue your point, you are on fire today

[DaveThePanther2008]

1 minute ago, micnificent28 said:

You would be wrong for spending the number 6 pick on a limited upside Pickett and Howell who is projected second rounder. I like Howell but nobody has him going in the top 20 maybe not the first round. 

Pickett is a 4 year starter and is probably the most pro ready of the top 5 QBs. 

Howell, IMO, is being highly undervalued.  His 2020 season would have put him right behind Lawrence and Wilson.   

HIS TEAM not him was the reason he didn't have the great success he had in 2020.  He has all the tools and is not a one read QB like Willis. 

The way we have addressed our line and we have top tier WR and RBs.  Howell would do well with us.  I doubt he makes it to the 2nd round. 

 

 

 

[micnificent28]

6 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Well there you have it.   The QB guru Chris Trapasso says Willis can play year one.  

BTW who is Chris Trapasso?

The head of draft analytics for cbssports.

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, micnificent28 said:

My bad I should have asked him to give detail because Mr completely doesn't like Willis and a simple yes isn't credible.

Im sorry but a one word tweet isnt giving me the warm and fuzzies that Willis will be able to start and win games in year one, especially when the HUGE knock on him is he is raw and is playing in an elementary offense.  But by God if some dude named Chris Trapposo says he can play then fug it all draft willis at 6 and lets roll

[micnificent28]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Wow a mock draft to argue your point, you are on fire today

Definitely more on fire than you any day. You never have any Valid info or links to anything you say. You basically just fart in the wind and say "we all smell it". 

[micnificent28]

Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

Im sorry but a one word tweet isnt giving me the warm and fuzzies that Willis will be able to start and win games in year one, especially when the HUGE knock on him is he is raw and is playing in an elementary offense.  But by God if some dude named Chris Trapposo says he can play then fug it all draft willis at 6 and lets roll

I mean mcshay said it as well.. but now what we don't like mcshay because we don't agree with his opinion?

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, micnificent28 said:

Definitely more on fire than you any day. You never have any Valid info or links to anything you say. You basically just fart in the wind and say "we all smell it". 

Sick burn

 

I thought you said you were ignoring me and my posts. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

Just now, micnificent28 said:

The head of draft analytics for cbssports.

AND?

I've never heard of him.  Just because he has player analyst by his name doesn't mean much. 

Obviously not much of a source. 

[rayzor]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

The offense under Shula, yeah. And as odd as it might feel, the Shula years up to 2015 were the most successful years we had.

There were entire articles dissecting the kind of run concepts and ideas that Shula was using to make the offense go. Unfortunately, Dan Quinn and Wade Phillips dissected them too. Once there was an answer out there, Shula wasn't good enough to respond.

Turner actually did a better job developing Newton, and I've always believed that if we'd have had someone like Turner from the beginning, things could have been different. 

agreed on Cam would have been better with Norv or someone else that had more than his daddy's name going for him (seriously, that was one of the biggest fug ups of Ron's tenure here...and he had many). 

under Shula, it was run heavy, the way many successful offenses have been. it wasn't managed well. that was the issue (at least as far as Shula was concerned). 

run heavy offenses can and do work. 

whatever the case is... i think that people are selling Willis short. I think, honestly, that the vick criticisms are unwarranted. he won games. pure and simple. he was a massive headache for us the whole time he was here and i don't think many would argue that.and he did it in spite of mismanagement from the coaches he had to deal with and his admitted maturity issues. point being that he could have done much better with the tools he had if he was managed better. truth is, there hadn't really been anyone like him before so it was essentially an experiment. he had the tools, there's no denying that. whatever "style" QB he was wasn't the culprit in him being successful or not. what he had going on between his ears and how he was managed by the coaching staff and the offense they expected him to play in had more to do it than anything.

but i think willis may not be the athlete vick was, but he's got the tools needed. just like any rookie, they are going to need to be handled right to find any kind of success short or long term. 

lumping these guys into all these made up categories is just lazy, imo. metrics used for these categories are made up by whoever wants to prove whatever point they are trying to make. 

[micnificent28]

3 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Pickett is a 4 year starter and is probably the most pro ready of the top 5 QBs. 

Howell, IMO, is being highly undervalued.  His 2020 season would have put him right behind Lawrence and Wilson.   

HIS TEAM not him was the reason he didn't have the great success he had in 2020.  He has all the tools and is not a one read QB like Willis. 

The way we have addressed our line and we have top tier WR and RBs.  Howell would do well with us.  I doubt he makes it to the 2nd round. 

 

 

 

One read qb sounds a lot like the guy we drafted in 2011. All the things they were saying about Cam then older guys like you are saying now. He's a running back move his position. He can't throw. But bottom line people have seen him throw well enough to say he's above everyone else in this class. That should tell you he's more than just some running back at qb. He has to be able to throw..everyone knows that. These teams aren't going to draft a qb first round that doesn't have the ability to throw.

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, micnificent28 said:

I mean mcshay said it as well.. but now what we don't like mcshay because we don't agree with his opinion?

This todd mcshay: 

“I’d love to see him in a situation where he doesn’t get thrown in right away, where he has people around who can develop him. .”

“It’s pretty clear he has the most upside of the class’ quarterbacks,” McShay said. “Is he ready to take over right away? That’s another discussion.”

The ESPN analyst suggests the Liberty standout might need one year in the pros to develop and possibly learn behind a veteran.

 

https://www.sportscasting.com/nfl-draft-analyst-todd-mcshay-reveals-why-malik-willis-top-15-nfl-qb/

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

This should kill that whole argument. The whole idea that the quarterback wins and decides playoff victories is ridiculous. There are 21 other guys who have a large say so and looking at the score at the end of the game doesn't mean the better qb won the game.

Same question then: Can we win with Sam Darnold?

He's certainly a fine athlete. Heck, during the first part of last season, he ran for more touchdowns than any other quarterback in the league.

He's shown that he's capable of throwing the ball far or throwing it hard as well as running for first downs or even touchdowns when needed.

Using the criteria you've set yourself, he should be a perfectly capable quarterback.

So can we win games with him?

And if the answer is no, what's the specific reason why?

Edited April 11, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[DaveThePanther2008]

Willis left Auburn because he couldn't crack the line-up. instead of transferring back to a real college after his Junior year, like Cam did.  Willis decided to stay and pad his stats.  Whereas Cam left Florida for stupidity as a sophomore and went to Blinn for one year and then WENT BACK TO A REAL PROGRAM and won the National Title.

 

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Same question then: Can we win with Sam Darnold?

He's certainly a fine athlete. Heck, during the first part of last season, he ran for more touchdowns than any other quarterback in the league.

He's shown that he's capable of throwing the ball far or throwing it hard as well as running for first downs or even touchdowns when needed.

Using the criteria you've set yourself, he should be a perfectly capable quarterback.

So can we win games with him?

And if the answer is no, what's the specific reason why?

I think he is damaged goods at this point.  However he has never had a good line and he has had what 5 different oc's at this point.  Neither we or the jets did him any favors