The most key addition may be McAdoo.

[poundaway]

24 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Which, that also flies in the face of the "micromanagement" criticism that often gets thrown around. So perhaps that isn't true either.

 

Yup. 

[Sgt Schultz]

29 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't think he did meddle with the offense at all. I think he handed it all over to his guys and let them work. 

Which, that also flies in the face of the "micromanagement" criticism that often gets thrown around. So perhaps that isn't true either.

Either way, it's been fuging weird to see it all unfold.

My indictments of Rhule from last year never included a count of micromanaging the play calling on either side of the ball, or even the overall game plan. 

A HC stepping in to say no, they aren't running THAT play happens probably nearly weekly with every team.  A HC also telling his OC or DC they want them to focus on one thing or another leading up to or during a game is also pretty common.  That's why some of them sleep in their offices, giving themselves ulcers over what they see on the film and how to deal with it.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Sgt Schultz

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, poundaway said:

Yup. 

He also just may micromanage in other ways. We will really never know until we start hearing people talk about it. That isn't likely to start happening until after he gets fired.

7 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

My indictments of Rhule from last year never included a count of micromanaging the play calling on either side of the ball, or even the overall game plan. 

A HC stepping in to say no, they aren't running THAT play happens probably nearly weekly with every team.  A HC also telling his OC or DC they want them to focus on one thing or another leading up to or during a game is also pretty common.  That's why some of them sleep in their offices, giving themselves ulcers over what they see on the film and how to deal with it.

Yeah, it is very hard to determine what kind of head coach Rhule is, other than an extremely ineffective one.

[CRA]

2 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

Which sorta hints to me that Rhule may not have meddled with the offense as much as many people think.  Rhule has been saying for a while that he wants to be a run-first offense, which happens to also be how he ran his college teams, but our offensive playcalling has not exactly reflected that.  And when you consider that, along with who our OC has been the last two seasons (LSU pass game coordinator), it seems more likely that Brady was largely running his own offense.  It's easy to imagine an inexperienced OC with an over-reliance on his bread-and-butter rather than branching out of his comfort zone to install a balanced gameplan, and I think that meshes with what we've seen on the field over the last couple seasons.

I'm not too thrilled with the idea of being a run-first offense in the modern NFL, but I'm hoping we find a healthier balance.  I think Ekwonu (who's a straight up mauler in the run game) and the return of CMC should help with that.

I mean, the games themselves in large part haven't really allowed it though.  I mean, you can want to run....but if you got a weak OL and rookie RB running behind it (and a D not respecting the QB play)? Well the good defenses can simply force you out of it.   I think that happened a lot.  We played 4 teams that were in the bottom 10 in run defense and we beat 3 of those 4 teams.  Problem was our run talent wasn't good enough for the be the gameplan that actually unfolded vs good defenses.  They could focus on stopping the run.   And had little to fear if they wanted to be aggressive in doing it. 

You can't exactly impose your will on others when your run game is weak playing against good defenses.  It's a talent issue prohibiting it. 

Compared to other NFL teams, Carolina has been one of the more balanced teams in terms of run vs pass under Rhule.   If you look at the teams w/ the heaviest run percentage they had legit run game talent.  I mean, sticking to the run when you are forced out of it is just conceding defeat when it is a talent issue primarily.  

 

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

I mean, the games themselves in large part haven't really allowed it though.  I mean, you can want to run....but if you got a weak OL and rookie RB running behind it (and a D not respecting the QB play)? Well the good defenses can simply force you out of it.   I think that happened a lot.  We played 4 teams that were in the bottom 10 in run defense and we beat 3 of those 4 teams.  Problem was our run talent wasn't good enough for the be the gameplan that actually unfolded vs good defenses.  They could focus on stopping the run.   And had little to fear if they wanted to be aggressive in doing it. 

You can't exactly impose your will on others when your run game is weak playing against good defenses.  It's a talent issue prohibiting it. 

Compared to other NFL teams, Carolina has been one of the more balanced teams in terms of run vs pass under Rhule.   If you look at the teams w/ the heaviest run percentage they had legit run game talent.  I mean, sticking to the run when you are forced out of it is just conceding defeat when it is a talent issue primarily.  

 

"Talent" is a relative term that needs to be evaluated with respect to your personnel.  You have to work with what you've got and maximize your strengths while limiting your weaknesses, regardless of how your talent stacks up to other teams.  Was our run blocking and rookie running back liabilities?  Yeah probably, but not nearly as much of a liability as our QB play and pass protection.  You can't talk about how weak our run game was in a vacuum while ignoring the elephant in the room that was our abysmal pass game.  With our roster, we probably should have been a run-heavy team.  Instead, our OC would panic when down 3 in the second quarter and practically abandon the run game altogether...making our offense entirely one-dimensional to where the opposing pass rush could pin their ears back and ignore gap integrity.  Even if you're not "imposing your will" in the run game, you still have to incorporate it into your game plan throughout the game to keep the defense honest.

Out of those 4 bottom-10 run defense teams you mentioned we played, we still prioritized the pass in 3 out of those 4 games.  That only serves to epitomize our poor offensive gameplanning. 

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

"Talent" is a relative term that needs to be evaluated with respect to your personnel.  You have to work with what you've got and maximize your strengths while limiting your weaknesses, regardless of how your talent stacks up to other teams.  Was our run blocking and rookie running back liabilities?  Yeah probably, but not nearly as much of a liability as our QB play and pass protection.  You can't talk about how weak our run game was in a vacuum while ignoring the elephant in the room that was our abysmal pass game.  With our roster, we probably should have been a run-heavy team.  Instead, our OC would panic when down 3 in the second quarter and practically abandon the run game altogether...making our offense entirely one-dimensional to where the opposing pass rush could pin their ears back and ignore gap integrity.  Even if you're not "imposing your will" in the run game, you still have to incorporate it into your game plan throughout the game to keep the defense honest.

Out of those 4 bottom-10 run defense teams you mentioned we played, we still prioritized the pass in 3 out of those 4 games.  That only serves to epitomize our poor offensive gameplanning. 

I didn’t ignore the elephant in the room.  I said that giant elephant made it even easier to focus on shutting down a weak run game.   Especially if you weren’t one of the worst run Ds in the NFL. 

 

[poundaway]

McAdoo's rushing production was meh.  The went from 30th to 18th in yards per attempt with Jennings at RB.

[top dawg]

10 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

This has been discussed ad nauseam in this forum.

His successes are as glaring as his failures. Also he has thr major red flag of not being able to get employed in the NFL for most of his post-HC career, which is a giant red flag. At least he has legitimate NFL HC/Coordinator experience which no previous Rhule coach has had.

Ultimately, TBD how it works out. I suspect anyone believing he will be some sort of savior is going to be sorely disappointed. That said, I would imagine he is an improvement over what we have had under Rhule.

Who knows why people didn't hire McAdoo, or even if he was ready to be hired. 

[top dawg]

4 minutes ago, poundaway said:

McAdoo's rushing production was meh.  The went from 30th to 18th in yards per attempt with Jennings at RB.

I think that everyone should remember that the Giants never had the best O-lines while McAdoo was there. Of course that played a part in the running and the passing game. It's not something to really gloss over in terms of his run-pass ratio, or even their relative success or failure.

[poundaway]

2 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I think that everyone should remember that the Giants never had the best O-lines while McAdoo was there. Of course that played a part in the running and the passing game. It's not something to really gloss over in terms of his run-pass ratio, or even their relative success or failure.

And yet they were 10th and 8th in yards, and 13th and 6th in points.

I'll take any of those rankings over the crap we saw the last two years.

[MasterAwesome]

17 minutes ago, CRA said:

I didn’t ignore the elephant in the room.  I said that giant elephant made it even easier to focus on shutting down a weak run game.   Especially if you weren’t one of the worst run Ds in the NFL. 

 

Well you're using our "weak run game" as justification for why we didn't run more, when the alternative (our pass game) was monumentally weaker by comparison.  So you are ostensibly ignoring the elephant in the room when laying out your rationale.

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Well you're using our "weak run game" as justification for why we didn't run more, when the alternative (our pass game) was monumentally weaker by comparison.  So you are ostensibly ignoring the elephant in the room when laying out your rationale.

Again, we were middle of the pack in terms of run/pass ratio.  You seemed to be suggesting we should of been top 10 when we simply didn't have the talent to commit to such.  I mean, it just turns into punting every down and accepting defeat at a certain point. 

Attempting to be balanced is the best you can do when both are weak.  And the best player on the field also is DJ Moore. 

maybe with an improved OL and CMC back we can run more.  I'm not arguing against running more.  But over committing to the run last year wasn't going to win games either or make us look better.  It would just be pathetic offense. 

[poundaway]

13 minutes ago, CRA said:

 It would just be pathetic offense. 

and that mission was already accomplished.

We went from 21st in total yards to 30th, and 24th in points to 29th from 2020 to 2021. 

The offense has been putrid across two QBs.   

We were in the bottom half in both rushing and passing yards in both years.

Edited July 13, 2022 by poundaway

[MasterAwesome]

17 minutes ago, CRA said:

Again, we were middle of the pack in terms of run/pass ratio.  You seemed to be suggesting we should of been top 10 when we simply didn't have the talent to commit to such.  I mean, it just turns into punting every down and accepting defeat at a certain point. 

Attempting to be balanced is the best you can do when both are weak.  And the best player on the field also is DJ Moore. 

maybe with an improved OL and CMC back we can run more.  I'm not arguing against running more.  But over committing to the run last year wasn't going to win games either or make us look better.  It would just be pathetic offense. 

As opposed to...?

You know the reason we're left speculating about what might have happened if we had taken a different approach with the offense last season?  Because nothing ever changed with our offense gameplan....absolutely zero adjustments.  And that will forever be the fatal flaw with Brady, regardless of our roster shortcomings.  The game plan week in and week out was to trot Sam Darnold out there behind a turnstile offensive line and see how long it would take for him to implode.  It was mind-boggling how little we seemed to game plan each week.  Like I said, even against the weak run-defense opponents, we still prioritized the pass over the run.  Even though we won those games...so it's not like we were forced to pass, coming from behind.  All evidence points to a stubborn one-dimensional OC who had zero feel for the fluidity of an NFL game.  Despite having over 1.5 seasons to settle into his role and show even a semblance of progression in that aspect of the game.