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Jones: Tepper now looking for "a young offensive mind"

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Something else to consider...

Offensive production is down this season. When that happens, you know what the NFL tends to do.

If the league winds up making rule changes that favor the offense even more than what they already do, hiring an offensive coach would become an even wiser decision.

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Waldo Grand Master

Waldo

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3 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Seattle is as bad as we are. I'm not in favor of pursuing a media darling again. Look where that got us.

If the Lions OC and Eagles OC can finish strong then they need to be looked at hard.

Dorsey gives me Wilks vibes but I know he will be looked at. Even with Geno's success I don't want anyone from Seattle. Same with the Jets.

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UNCrules2187 Mentor

UNCrules2187

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12 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Seattle is as bad as we are. I'm not in favor of pursuing a media darling again. Look where that got us.

Huh? Seattle is tied for 1st in the NFC West, Geno Smith is ranked 4th in QBR, and the Seahawks are ranked 9th in the NFL in PPG and 4th in Offensive DVOA. I'd be happy with Waldron.

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thunderraiden Veteran

thunderraiden

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9 hours ago, Peon Awesome said:

We should probably review the data on offensive-minded coaches since McVay was hired and kicked off this obsession.

2018

1. Pat Shurmur

2. Frank Reich

3. Matt Nagy

2019

1. Kliff Kingsbury

2. Freddie Kitchens

3. Matt LaFleur

4. Adam Gase

5. Zac Taylor

2020

Kevin Stefanski

2021

1. Nick Sirianni

2. Arthur Smith

2022

1. Brian Daboll

2. Kevin O'Connell

3. Mike McDaniel

4. Nathaniel Hackett

5. Josh McDaniels

I didn't include coaches with an offensive background that had solidified themselves as head coaches more recently since that doesn't seem to be exactly the theme (e.g. Jon Gruden, Bruce Arians, Doug Pedersen) although you could argue for that. Or Dan Campbell since he was a tight ends coach which is a bit different than the above.

What are the trends? 

1. Be wary of coaches who may have ridden the coattails of elite QBs (Hackett, Gase, +/- McDaniels) unless they were clearly involved in the growth of said QB (Daboll)

Possible 2023 examples: Leftwich, Dorsey, Bienemy

2. Be wary of coaches who served under a historically good head coach that has their fingerprints on the whole team (McDaniels, Nagy)

3. Probably doesn't need to be said after the traumatic experience of Rhule, but just to really emphasize it, be wary of college coaches (Kingsbury, Rhule, Urban Meyer).

Other than that, it's a mixed bag. Even coaches like Zac Taylor have looked pretty bad outside of his super bowl run; he's probably a Rivera level guy who isn't very good but can do enough not to completely impede elite play from his qb. Daboll looks the best on this list but it's so early only 6 games in. And he molded Josh Allen from a possible bust to the MVP frontrunner and possible hall of famer. How many candidates with that resume are you going to get?

With that in mind, Steichen seems like the clear cut top choice. He oversaw the development of Herbert and Hurts.

Then perhaps Kellen Moore depending on how the Cowboys play out the year, although they are really riding on the strength of their defense. Maybe Ben Johnson if the Lions keep up pace and the Pats game isn't the start of their descent back to Earth although that's a quick ascent from coordinator to coach. Guess it's good that we have the earliest jump start on the hiring

 

You have single handedly moved me off my Ken Dorsey obsession on to a Shane Steichen obsession.

Shane Steichen and CJ Stroud 2023.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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1 minute ago, Waldo said:

If the Lions OC and Eagles OC can finish strong then they need to be looked at hard.

Dorsey gives me Wilks vibes but I know he will be looked at. Even with Geno's success I don't want anyone from Seattle. Same with the Jets.

Folks look at the coordinators as the cure all for a bad team but being a head coach is more than being good at one aspect of the game.  The head coach has to be a man among men to lead a team. Just because a coach is really good at offense or defense doesn't mean they can lead a team of grown men to get the best out of them from one week to the next.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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2 minutes ago, UNCrules2187 said:

Huh? Seattle is tied for 1st in the NFC West, Geno Smith is ranked 4th in QBR, and the Seahawks are ranked 9th in the NFL in PPG and 4th in Offensive DVOA. I'd be happy with Waldron.

So. At one time Matt Rhule had an impressive Temple team. I've watched Seattle play. I'm not impressed. 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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16 minutes ago, Waldo said:

If the Lions OC and Eagles OC can finish strong then they need to be looked at hard.

Dorsey gives me Wilks vibes but I know he will be looked at. Even with Geno's success I don't want anyone from Seattle. Same with the Jets.

Johnson (Lions) is a kid from the Carolinas whose childhood / high school years coincided with some good Panther seasons. He's also got all kinds of connections to the area and some to the team, including having worked with Luke Kuechly in college.

It wouldn't surprise me if he really wanted the job here and had his agent contact us about it.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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10 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

So. At one time Matt Rhule had an impressive Temple team. I've watched Seattle play. I'm not impressed. 

Waldron is getting results with Geno Smith.

Aside from one game, Johnson is scoring at a near record pace with Jared Goff.

As to Rhule, it was mostly media driven buzz.

It's definitely not the same.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Waldron is getting results with Geno Smith.

Aside from one game, Johnson is scoring at a near record pace with Jared Goff.

As to Rhule, it was mostly media driven buzz.

It's definitely not the same.

There's one every year that comes out of nowhere to look like the next up and coming thing.  I'm not getting suckered into beleiving another overhyped coordinator is just what we need.

I will wait until the dust settles on this season before I start to look around. 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Just now, Jon Snow said:

There's one every year that comes out of nowhere to look like the next up and coming thing.  I'm not getting suckered into beleiving another overhyped coordinator is just what we need.

That's why I research more than just this year.

And the thing about Johnson is how he did it. He spotted something other coaches were missing and knew how to exploit it.

That shows the kind of intelligence a head coach should have.

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Waldo Grand Master

Waldo

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10 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Folks look at the coordinators as the cure all for a bad team but being a head coach is more than being good at one aspect of the game.  The head coach has to be a man among men to lead a team. Just because a coach is really good at offense or defense doesn't mean they can lead a team of grown men to get the best out of them from one week to the next.

I agree. They have to keep all units of the team up and also work with an Owner and GM. Doresy feels like a Wilks type coach to me, good in a system and followed a better coach who set up everything for them. I don't believe they can build it themselves. Coordinators are just the most likely place to find a new HC unless you are looking in school which shouldn't be an option for us this time. We do need someone that can set up and run (directly or indirectly) an effective offense. 

A Daboll type is what I want us to find. A really good offensive mind at OC but also prime HC material matched with a DC who would be a HC if it was the league from 20 years ago. Dude is competing in year one before he clears the cap mess up. That is impressive as hell to me. 

 

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