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QB breakdowns by Josh McCown

Martin

By Martin,
in Carolina Panthers

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gmonjimbo Community Regular

gmonjimbo

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, 96Bravo said:

I hear ya'...On the other hand, CJ had a depleted and ineffective running game heading into the Peach Bowl. Lost his best TE Stover in the first half. Then lost Marvin Harrison Jr in the second half. Yet,still...

He lost Marvin Harrison JR. with about 40 seconds left in the third quarter with Ohio State up 14 entering the 4th quarter. Then rest of the way Ohio State scored 3 points in 4th quarter, allowing Georgia to come back. OSU kicker missed a GW 50 field goal.

Harrison played 3/4 of the game and im sure if he was able to play in the 4th quarter, Ohio State would have won outright without needing to kick a FG because it's much easier to play defense when opposing teams top target is out of the picture.

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Shocker Grand Master

Shocker

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1 minute ago, pantherpain said:

Because its the truth. I think its more his build than just his height.

That is a myth.  Bryce played overall against better competition and dominated from day 1.  Was injured and missed 1 game.  In college.  In the SEC.  Young’s the pick

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pantherpain Apprentice

pantherpain

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3 minutes ago, Shocker said:

That is a myth.  Bryce played overall against better competition and dominated from day 1.  Was injured and missed 1 game.  In college.  In the SEC.  Young’s the pick

I agree Bryce would be my pick also, but I keep hearing he weights 195 pounds  soaking  wet he can't  take a hit and so on, I think he's worth the risk.

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Shocker Grand Master

Shocker

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4 minutes ago, pantherpain said:

I agree Bryce would be my pick also, but I keep hearing he weights 195 pounds  soaking  wet he can't  take a hit and so on, I think he's worth the risk.

I take Young, he is an amazing QB.  Will Levis has missed time and had injuries etc.  Why is he considered as more durable?  History says different 

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pantherpain Apprentice

pantherpain

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7 minutes ago, Shocker said:

I take Young, he is an amazing QB.  Will Levis has missed time and had injuries etc.  Why is he considered as more durable?  History says different 

Because Levis is 6'4 and built like a tank, but that goes to show size doesn't stop injury. And the way he runs is dangerous, someone needs to tell him to slow down flying leaps.

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gmonjimbo Community Regular

gmonjimbo

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15 hours ago, Shocker said:

That is a myth.  Bryce played overall against better competition and dominated from day 1.  Was injured and missed 1 game.  In college.  In the SEC.  Young’s the pick

Also, for me is the consistency in evaluating both prospects. If CJ's game against Georgia is evidence that he will use his athleticism more to create plays and perform better under pressure (because I can gladly admit on script with a clean pocket - he is the best QB in the draft) 

Then Bryce's performance against Georgia should hold equal weight as it included Jalen Carter, a healthy Nolan Smith, Kelee Ringo, and 5 other defenders that went into the first round last year. 

"The Bama signal-caller took a sack on just 12.5% of his pressured dropbacks in college, an extremely low rate, while his 69.6 pressured-passing grade and 9.3 yards per attempt while under pressure both ranked second at the position."

Screenshot_20230405_204058_Gallery.thumb.jpg.4177a0f28ff31894b2ca07c368c2cd74.jpg

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

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If we're excluding drafting a QB at 1 based on how they react to being pressured we probably wouldn't have even traded up in the first place. And to Young's under pressure numbers how many of those plays did he drop back several steps and dance around the pocket for 5 seconds plus? That's not happening in the NFL.

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Martin Grand Master

Martin

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46 minutes ago, gmonjimbo said:

Also, for me is the consistency in evaluating both prospects. If CJ's game against Georgia is evidence that he will use his athleticism more to create plays and perform better under pressure (because I can gladly admit on script with a clean pocket - he is the best QB in the draft) 

Then Bryce's performance against Georgia should hold equal weight as it included Jalen Carter, a healthy Nolan Smith, Kelee Ringo, and 5 other defenders that went into the first round last year. 

"The Bama signal-caller took a sack on just 12.5% of his pressured dropbacks in college, an extremely low rate, while his 69.6 pressured-passing grade and 9.3 yards per attempt while under pressure both ranked second at the position."

Screenshot_20230405_204058_Gallery.thumb.jpg.4177a0f28ff31894b2ca07c368c2cd74.jpg

Young was an amazing college QB. If we pick him I hope it translates as well as most people say. I would be ecstatic to be wrong if that is the case.

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gmonjimbo Community Regular

gmonjimbo

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11 minutes ago, frankw said:

If we're excluding drafting a QB at 1 based on how they react to being pressured we probably wouldn't have even traded up in the first place. And to Young's under pressure numbers how many of those plays did he drop back several steps and dance around the pocket for 5 seconds plus? That's not happening in the NFL.

No, it's part of a QBs profile that you use to rank the prospects. I'm sure they are evaluating all the variables that impact their performance which will include pressure. 

Also, you have a habit of turning anything that Bryce excels at into a caricature - he dances around in the pocket and throws the ball up for grabs 

His frame is a concern. However, I have to go with his injury history - surgeries, missed games, etc. He's missed one game as a starter and has no reported surgeries.  I'm sure the teams will have his complete medical history, even when he stubbed his toe. 

My input doesn't matter as I'm not part of the Panthers brain trust. Yet until the pick is announced I would take the risk on Bryce because I've consistently listened or read that his tape is better or he is graded as the top QB, even on the majority of mocks that list CJ at 1. 

 

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

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3 minutes ago, gmonjimbo said:

No, it's part of a QBs profile that you use to rank the prospects. I'm sure they are evaluating all the variables that impact their performance which will include pressure. 

Also, you have a habit of turning anything that Bryce excels at into a caricature - he dances around in the pocket and throws the ball up for grabs 

His frame is a concern. However, I have to go with his injury history - surgeries, missed games, etc. He's missed one game as a starter and has no reported surgeries.  I'm sure the teams will have his complete medical history, even when he stubbed his toe. 

My input doesn't matter as I'm not part of the Panthers brain trust. Yet until the pick is announced I would take the risk on Bryce because I've consistently listened or read that his tape is better or he is graded as the top QB, even on the majority of mocks that list CJ at 1.

We are just offering our opinions to pass the time.

In my mind excelling at scrambling in college and the NFL are different animals. Yes there are traits both he and Stroud have that directly translate but that's the one I'm less impressed with overall because due to the fact he would he the smallest starting QB in the NFL it will not be a feature of his game if the braintrust tab him for the top pick. If they value their job security they will have him keeping that to a minimum and keep him relatively clean. We should and will also seek to shore up the oline even more to compensate. Now would NOT be the time to go back to our past approach of thinking the OL is further along than it actually is. I expect moves to solidify our OL depth to be made if he's the pick.

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gmonjimbo Community Regular

gmonjimbo

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10 minutes ago, Martin said:

Young was an amazing college QB. If we pick him I hope it translates as well as most people say. I would be ecstatic to be wrong if that is the case.

I think any of the QBs - Stroud, Young, Richardson even Levis and Hooker that may have me scratching my head will be put in a position to succeed here. 

We just have a difference in who we prefer at 1, which is perfectly fine. 

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    • d-dave
      Does anyone actually think Bryce will actually be good?

      By d-dave · Posted

      The problem that Bryce faces is his lack of prototypical tools.  He's not the tall, strong armed mobile QB that tends to get drafted first overall.  His game is not played in underwear on a practice field.  His best asset are his intangibles.  They aren't sexy like a cannon arm or a fast 40 yard dash. OK, so we took the lesser athlete.  Bryce put up a pretty bad season with a bad team around him.  The coaching staff, for all it's platitudes, sucked.  They made sure Bryce could run a huddle, but didn't help him get better as a player.  Bad choice. Compare that to what other teams did to their Rookies:  they put them in position to succeed with better personnel and better play calling.  Sure, there are physical differences which are going to affect the outcomes, but you can't change it. Am I trying to ride to the defense of Bryce?  Only a little.  He's my favorite team's QB, and I believe in him.  Now, he's got this year to show that he's "the No. 1 for a reason" (Thanks CJ Stroud).  Will he, won't he?  I don't know at all.  That's on the D&D crew to put Bryce is position to play well.  Running the ball is going to make things a lot easier for Bryce.  Does that discount his success if he plays well?  For some of y'all it will.  Some of y'all just don't like Bryce, like he stole you DoorDash or something. Regardless, let's see what happens in 2024.  If Bryce stinks it up, then we're going back to the QB well again.  
    • rayzor
      Does anyone actually think Bryce will actually be good?

      By rayzor · Posted

      we may think we know, but we don't know. we won't know what effect upgrades on the OL, coaching staff, and WR room will have. we don't know what scheme canales is going to put together. we don't know a lot of things.  that's why we play the games...to see what shakes out. plenty of reasons to think Bryce is limited this year...again. Plenty of reasons to see an improvement in his play. 
    • MHS831
      Does anyone actually think Bryce will actually be good?

      By MHS831 · Posted

      He did not elevate the players around him, but they de-elevated their QB.  A QB like Bryce needs a system, a strong OL, a Running game, and WRs that can get open.  Call him a manager at best, but so is a point guard.  That is all we should need.  He is smart enough to grow into a very effective player.  I once saw a Coach talking about the OL--i forget who it was Schottenheimer comes to mind--and he said, you can succeed if you have one weak link on the OL.  If you get 2 weak links, success comes 10x harder.  If you get three weak links, your season is over.  Your QB is injured, and you are unemployed (paraphrasing).  I would say that we had 4 weak links (Icky does not get a pass) and a RB who was not good at pass blocking. I am not saying the Bryce is the answer at QB--but I am saying we don't know yet. I know QBs (college) and when the OL sucks, they collapse mentally over time.  That is what we saw--a QB who had never played without the advantage.
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