Booo hooo its not FAIIIR to Compare Cam to Bryce rookie seasons.

[Pantha-kun]

13 minutes ago, MGH1989 said:

No, I am being an adult realizing not everything is black and white and that we can use nuance instead of not taking everything. Bryce has shown some good things and made some bone headed mistakes. All of this has been in the context of bad weapons and terrible play calling. See nuance.

I just really dont like how some of your are just blowing it off and acting like 90 percent of this isnt Bryces fault. Its mind boggling. If you are that dude, you make plays despite this bull poo around you. Im not saying you magically make the team a super bowl contender. But if Bryce was a competent QB we wouldnt look like a wounded duck with him manning the offense every Sunday.

Andy Dalton really put a thorn in some of you apologists arguments. Because he actually made the offense look somewhat competent. Both him and Young played bad defenses in back to back weeks. Same coach. Generally same players. Same team. 

If the playcalling was really that big of a deal, why doesn't bryce ask for different ones like Andy did? Is it not a gargantuan indictment on Bryce himself if the coaches refuse to call down the field plays for their #1 overall trade the farm for QB,  but not do the same for a backup QB? That makes me think theyre trying to hide some inadequacies Bryce has had behind the scenes, because there is no other logical explanation. Why would you basically coach to lose your job lol

Edited October 2, 2023 by Pantha-kun

[emhoward]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We knew immediately we had a that dude. A QB with legit MVP potential. Now we're trying to grasp at straws to convince ourselves that Bryce might not be a bust and might eventually work out if we can put all the ideal pieces around him in the perfect system. That's not what you want #1 overall. Definitely not what you want in a massive trade up to #1.

This is an interesting position. If you dont know he's the guy immediately, then in your view he likely will never be #1 pick caliber. I feel like I can come up with some examples that oppose this view, but I would have to think on it. Hmm.

Obviously him flashing stardom from day one is optimal, but I dont feel like that is off the table for Bryce.

[Pantha-kun]

42 minutes ago, Shaqil915 said:

Olsen was no better then Hurst when he was traded here, and Shockey was on his last legs. Cams supporting cast was for sure better but let's not act like part of it wasnt because they were elevated by a QB that could take advantage of them. Bryce wouldn't attempt half the throws Cam was throwing to Smitty that year.  

These people acting like the 2011 team was insanely talented conveniently forget to mention this stuff

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, emhoward said:

This is an interesting position. If you dont know he's the guy immediately, then in your view he likely will never be #1 pick caliber. I feel like I can come up with some examples that oppose this view, but I would have to think on it. Hmm.

Obviously him flashing stardom from day one is optimal, but I dont feel like that is off the table for Bryce.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's be nice to have seen at least a few instances in three games that make you say, "Wow. Okay, I see why we thought we had to get this guy." There just haven't been any.

[CPF4LIFE]

1 hour ago, Varking said:

For sure but he went from back to back 400 yard passing performances to 3 of the first four games being over 300 yards passing to… none after that. His next three seasons combined he had basically 2 300 yard games per season. It was more running threat than passing until 2015 when he went super nova on the NFL. The only real knock Cam had was he wasn’t the most consistent passer. 

You have to remember, Rivera took upon himself after the second season to neuter the offense because he wanted more ball control and run out the clock on opponents. Cam didnt just lose his big play ability, rivera was feeling the heat and was trying to win games.

[emhoward]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's be nice to have seen at least a few instances in three games that make you say, "Wow. Okay, I see why we thought we had to get this guy." There just haven't been any.

I suppose what reaches the "Wow" bar is different for everyone. The throw he made after dodging the defenders today was a throw like that for me. The TD he threw to Thielin in the preseason was that throw to me. I suppose that can be thrown out though since it was Preseason. But I certainly haven't seen many of them, that I agree.

 

I'm just not sure what people mean by "wow". He certainly will never be a Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes type with the throws, but I never expected that. What I hoped he could be was a Drew Brees type, I rarely seen anything out of Brees that said "wow" though, he was just surgical and consistent. I guess a lot of this can be left up to interpretation. 

[emhoward]

18 minutes ago, Pantha-kun said:

I just really dont like how some of your are just blowing it off and acting like 90 percent of this isnt Bryces fault. Its mind boggling. If you are that dude, you make plays despite this bull poo around you. Im not saying you magically make the team a super bowl contender. But if Bryce was a competent QB we wouldnt look like a wounded duck with him manning the offense every Sunday.

Andy Dalton really put a thorn in some of you apologists arguments. Because he actually made the offense look somewhat competent. Both him and Young played bad defenses in back to back weeks. Same coach. Generally same players. Same team. 

If the playcalling was really that big of a deal, why doesn't bryce ask for different ones like Andy did? Is it not a gargantuan indictment on Bryce himself if the coaches refuse to call down the field plays for their #1 overall trade the farm for QB,  but not do the same for a backup QB? That makes me think theyre trying to hide some inadequacies Bryce has had behind the scenes, because there is no other logical explanation. Why would you basically coach to lose your job lol

I suppose this is where I differ from other Bryce Supporters. I don't think he has looked competent. I do think a large portion of our offenses struggles are due to him. BUT, I still believe he can and will be the guy. I think some start slow, and then explode, and some start fast and flicker out, and some start slow and stay slow, and some start off with a bang and maintain it, turning into a HOFer. I haven't seen enough to say he can't be our franchise QB. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, emhoward said:

I suppose what reaches the "Wow" bar is different for everyone. The throw he made after dodging the defenders today was a throw like that for me. The TD he threw to Thielin in the preseason was that throw to me. I suppose that can be thrown out though since it was Preseason. But I certainly haven't seen many of them, that I agree.

 

I'm just not sure what people mean by "wow". He certainly will never be a Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes type with the throws, but I never expected that. What I hoped he could be was a Drew Brees type, I rarely seen anything out of Brees that said "wow" though, he was just surgical and consistent. I guess a lot of this can be left up to interpretation. 

A guy like Brees falls to #32 overall for a reason. It worked out awesomely for him but there were legit concerns with how he'd translate to the NFL despite putting up video games numbers at Purdue.

[emhoward]

13 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

A guy like Brees falls to #32 overall for a reason. It worked out awesomely for him but there were legit concerns with how he'd translate to the NFL despite putting up video games numbers at Purdue.

I see. I believe there's some top 5 pick types that had similar slow starts that turned it around. How many wow plays they had I can't say, didn't watch every snap, but I haven't yet lost hope in Bryce.

[CPantherKing]

2 hours ago, MGH1989 said:

Cam had Jordan Gross and Ryan Kali protecting him; had J-Stew/D-Will to hand it off to; and Smitty, Greg Olsen, and Jeremy Shockey to throw the ball to.

Any comparison without the attempt to contextualize is just silly. 

Are you saying the 2011 rebuild was done better than the 2023 reload?

Fire Fitterer?

[RelaxImaPro]

This team was just starting to finally instill some real culture during Cam’s tenure here and find some identity…. then we completely gutted it.  Who the fug is on the team that even played with Cam? JJ Jansen and Shaq Thompson?  lol

 This franchise was set back about a decade when we cut ties with Cam and Rivera.

 We could at least continue to give mother fuging touchdown balls to kids in the stadium.  If we can ever manage to get another touchdown on offense that is.

Edited October 2, 2023 by RelaxImaPro