Will we not know the QB situ until the draft or...

[panthers55]

P55, you constantly belittle people, and put them down no matter what they have to say.

Especially if it doesn't jive with your "better than thou" opinion.

Sorry you didn't turn out to be what you always wanted to be, but your attitude towards others, that don't see the same sh!t colored, cock sucking balls you do, is living proof you don't know poo, even when you are that close to it.

You criticize everyone that doesn't agree with your assessment of the Panthers, period.

You are almost as bad as KT with the race card when it comes to the Panthers.

And you say you don't attack first or stalk me with abusive language. Then after I make several posts inviting a response based on concepts, philosophy or ideas, this is what you write.

And you wonder why I would belittle a response such as this? Let me do one better, I will dismiss it like I dismiss you . If you really want a discussion why not contribute. If I want to read misguided pathetic rants like yours I can go to any middle school at lunch and get my fill.

[SMACKDAB]

Stalker...what a sissy ass type move. :smilielol5:

What makes your concept, philosophy, or IDEAS, better than any other poster on this board?

You belittle them left and right, not just me, but anybody that questions, or disagrees with anything you type!

You eat your lunch where you see fit, but it won't be here.

[AceMan]

You are absolutely correct, if this kind of logic is expected to convince anyone that any of your arguments have the hint of legitimacy then I remain unconvinced.

You have thrown out a page of highly speculative, unproven, opinionated statements and expect people to agree. Well you might convince the negative complainers but anyone with an ounce of abstract ability will dismiss this as ranting not reason. You are certainly welcome to your opinion as are all others but if you want to convince anyone of anything try using logic and facts instead of rants and opinions.

It is funny that what I spew and what you do is the complete opposite of what you claim. I provide facts with my arguments while you provide personal opinions. I wanna see these so called facts you provided and the logic you are using. Again, you are the same guy that supported Jake up until the Jets game :crazy: when it was clear that he was tanking our season.

FACT - There was no competition at QB due to Fox's loyalty and the extension.

FACT - Jake has played bad this whole season. Bad in camp, bad in the scrimmage (was booed off), bad in the preseason, and bad in the opener(benched).

FACT - John Fox sacrificed this season because he doesn't like Moore and wanted to "win" with Jake.

Geez, I think you fail to realize that the Panthers fanbase is DONE with Delhomme. I'm starting to wish that Delhomme "competes" and is named starter in training camp just so I can hear what excuse you come up with or the way our fanbase reacts. Like I said, your view of Delhomme/Fox/(Panthers in general) is way off.

Geez, if Vinny is motivating D.Will, Delhomme to Moore, and Beason to Peppers...wtf is Fox doing? Why are we keeping these players on the roster if they're half-assing? Geez, you really think D.Will turned his philosophy on practice around because of a heart to heart with Vinny? All D.Will needed was an opportunity which he never got with Fox until he showed him up in the last couple of games. That is the only way to get a true chance under John Fox...you gotta show him up and make him look like a jackass. D.Will did it and Moore has done it this season. I would not be surprised if Barnidge or somebody else on our roster is next with the way John Fox buries talent.

I repeat, is Delhomme really "competition" for Moore? With a weak FA QB class, a failure as competition, and no 1st rounder...Moore has this franchise by the balls. Now that he has a chance, I'm sure he will say the politically right thing about working harder and yadda yadda yadda...but we all know that all he needed was a true chance.

[AceMan]

i know jake wasnt the starter in 03. now we all say preseaon is bull and doesnt mean anything so no agruement there. this guy has won 6 out of 8 games he started, but will not improve until he gets his fair shot. all im saying is give the guy a chance.that jake of 03 has not been seen, he had a ryan leaf year last year, and look what happen to him. remember 03 we wasnt sure about jake either, but he got his chance to show us. now its someone else turn to show us something.you dont have to be a football guy to be a good football player!

ps. im not arguing matt to be our starter either, just not jake.

These two. I think Moore has pretty much cemented himself as starter if Delhomme stays on the team. But, we are extremely shaky if anything should happen to Moore. panthers55 actually believes Delhomme will go back to playing at AVERAGE level, his ceiling during his prime around 2004-05, or that the Panthers fanbase would accept him for a 3rd outing. I wonder if he thinks Kerry Collins should challenge Vince Young for his QB position...God knows that sounds like a good idea to Titans fans...Let's forget the past 2 seasons of downright HORRIBLE play...yips my ass!

Noooo....Let's talk about practice, where Delhomme supposedly "excels" yet as far as I've known...he's ALWAYS had a history of overthrowing players in practice and looking sloppy and such...forget that though...practice, not the real game where Delhomme sucks ass...but practice.

[CanadianCat]

Why would we know before training camp or preseason. Isn't the purpose of the preseason to establish the starters? One of things people always complain about is that there isn't any competition in training camp and people are just giving the starters roles whether they deserve it or not. Now when that is what Fox wants to do, people whine and complain because Moore hasn't been named the starter 6 months before hand.

Answer this question? Do you think players try harder and work more when they are in a competition for their jobs or when they are handed the role no matter how they perform?

Anyone think Godfrey coming back and playing so much better was because Martin did so well when he was substituting for Godfrey.

If you think about it for anytime you will clearly see that competition should happen across the board at all positions every year.

With this being Fox's last year expect everyone to be fighting for a job and the competition to be intense this summer.

this

[panthers55]

These two. I think Moore has pretty much cemented himself as starter if Delhomme stays on the team. But, we are extremely shaky if anything should happen to Moore. panthers55 actually believes Delhomme will go back to playing at AVERAGE level, his ceiling during his prime around 2004-05, or that the Panthers fanbase would accept him for a 3rd outing. I wonder if he thinks Kerry Collins should challenge Vince Young for his QB position...God knows that sounds like a good idea to Titans fans...Let's forget the past 2 seasons of downright HORRIBLE play...yips my ass!

Noooo....Let's talk about practice, where Delhomme supposedly "excels" yet as far as I've known...he's ALWAYS had a history of overthrowing players in practice and looking sloppy and such...forget that though...practice, not the real game where Delhomme sucks ass...but practice.

Once again don't put words in my mouth. I don't know how jake will play or Moore for that matter. That is why I want to see what happens this year in camp and the preseason. I have no problem with More playing in fact I am excited that he will pick up where he left off and perhaps even improve. Anyone knows that jake is not the long term solution and perhaps isn't even the short term solution based on last year's play. Stop trying to paint me as an extremist because I am not. I just think that competition will make whoever becomes the starter better and am fine with the coaches and front office making that decision. I can understand why others are not but that is my opinion.

[panthers55]

It is funny that what I spew and what you do is the complete opposite of what you claim. I provide facts with my arguments while you provide personal opinions. I wanna see these so called facts you provided and the logic you are using. Again, you are the same guy that supported Jake up until the Jets game :crazy: when it was clear that he was tanking our season.

FACT - There was no competition at QB due to Fox's loyalty and the extension.

FACT - Jake has played bad this whole season. Bad in camp, bad in the scrimmage (was booed off), bad in the preseason, and bad in the opener(benched).

FACT - John Fox sacrificed this season because he doesn't like Moore and wanted to "win" with Jake.

Geez, I think you fail to realize that the Panthers fanbase is DONE with Delhomme. I'm starting to wish that Delhomme "competes" and is named starter in training camp just so I can hear what excuse you come up with or the way our fanbase reacts. Like I said, your view of Delhomme/Fox/(Panthers in general) is way off.

Geez, if Vinny is motivating D.Will, Delhomme to Moore, and Beason to Peppers...wtf is Fox doing? Why are we keeping these players on the roster if they're half-assing? Geez, you really think D.Will turned his philosophy on practice around because of a heart to heart with Vinny? All D.Will needed was an opportunity which he never got with Fox until he showed him up in the last couple of games. That is the only way to get a true chance under John Fox...you gotta show him up and make him look like a jackass. D.Will did it and Moore has done it this season. I would not be surprised if Barnidge or somebody else on our roster is next with the way John Fox buries talent.

I repeat, is Delhomme really "competition" for Moore? With a weak FA QB class, a failure as competition, and no 1st rounder...Moore has this franchise by the balls. Now that he has a chance, I'm sure he will say the politically right thing about working harder and yadda yadda yadda...but we all know that all he needed was a true chance.

The problem is you think your opinion is fact but it isn't. A fact is indisputable and everyone would agree. An opinion is your ideas or summation based on what ever you have read or believe to be true.

lets review. You say it is a fact that there was no competition due to Fox's loyalty and Jake's extension. That is an opinion not fact. There was a competition during camp and training camp and Jake won. You can argue that you don't think it was a real competition or a fair competition but again that would be opinion open for debate.

You say that it is a fact that Jake played poorly in camp, bad in the preseason, bad in the opener, and so on. That is actually incorrect on some counts and omits other facts such as Jake played better than moore in camp, in preseason and both played poorly in the opener. Jake also played well in some games [posting over a 90 quarterback rating) while others were abysmal (almost single digits). Jakes preseason rating was a 89, he completed almost 64% of his passes for an average of 7.9 yards per attempt. Moore's preseason quarterback ranking was a 58 completing 55% of his passes for 6 yards per attempt. No comparison which is why Jake started the year.

No one will argue that moore played much better during the year once he started and that Jake had a bad year. But as you can see from just a cursory look, your supposed facts are a mix of accurate opinion, inaccurate opinion and speculation.

You go on to say that Fox sacrificed the season because he didn't like Moore and wanted to win with Jake. How is there any fact at all in that statement. By it's nature it is your opinion. I could easily counter that Fox didn't trust Moore, had nothing to believe that he could do the job based on practice and the preseason and was caught between a rock and hard place. He was very pleasantly surprised with Moore and stuck with him when he realized that he was a gamer who could play better than one would assume based on practice, preparation and other facts. Is mine fact? Of course not, it is my opinion colored by what I have read, heard and observed. More valid than yours? In my mind-yes, in yours-no.

As for the rest, pure speculation and opinion without a shred of fact. It doesn't make it wrong as opinion can't be disproved or proved. You opinion can be misguided, irrelevant, accurate, enlightening or a host of other adjectives. And you are surely entitled to believe what you want. And I agree my opinion is not the mainstream because I tend to be a centrist rather than swinging like a pendulum from side to side from game to game or season to season. I also tend to wait to see what happens rather than make wild predictions, declarations, etc which may prove to be false.

The point is that opinions are fine and make for great debate. I recognize mine as opinions where obviously you are confused between what is a fact and what is an opinion. For future reference.

Fact- reality, truth, indisputable

opinion- a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty, a personal view, attitude or appraisal.

[AceMan]

The problem is you think your opinion is fact but it isn't. A fact is indisputable and everyone would agree. An opinion is your ideas or summation based on what ever you have read or believe to be true.

The point is that opinions are fine and make for great debate. I recognize mine as opinions where obviously you are confused between what is a fact and what is an opinion. For future reference.

Fact- reality, truth, indisputable

opinion- a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty, a personal view, attitude or appraisal.

Lemme help you out cuz you're still not getting it.

FACT - There was no competition at QB due to Fox's loyalty and the extension.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4092544

Delhomme has been taking part in Carolina's offseason conditioning program this month, while getting strong support from coach John Fox and general manager Marty Hurney, who have rebuffed suggestions they looked for another QB.

But with this rich deal, Delhomme will clearly remain Carolina's starter ahead of Josh McCown and Matt Moore.

That is a fact. There was NO competition. Geez...there was no way Moore or McCown was going to start over Delhomme this year. I don't blame Fox for starting Jake, I blame him and Hurney for giving Delhomme that extension therefore forcing Jake to start.

FACT - Jake has played bad this whole season. Bad in camp, bad in the scrimmage (was booed off), bad in the preseason, and bad in the opener(benched).

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/16910-jake-gets-boos-at-fan-fest-2.html

Jake threw the ball as if he thought Mike was going deep, so nautrally the ball sailed over Mike's head. The ugly part about that play that got the boos, was that in classic Jake form the ball sailed too high and the ball landed out of bounds. Even if Mike kept running, there was no way he was going to catch that ball.

http://americansportsblog.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/jake-delhomme-youll-be-the-death-of-me-and-youre-killing-john-fox/

That being said whether or not it was rust or lack of timing on Jake Delhomme’s part in the preseason game against the Giants. His performance in the game , albeit for no more than a couple of series. It can be best described as being pitiful ! The resulting 24-17 loss to the Giants, can’t have given the Panthers any faith in their starting quarterback. And I shudder to think how Fox, himself , may have felt after the player’s performance.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2098505/carolina_panthers_injuries_creating.html?cat=14

Jake Delhomme was not great, or even really good, but he was better than in the first preaseason game. Jake rarely shows much in the preseason anyway, so this is probably going the way it should.

There is more, but I think this pretty much sums this up. Like I said, this wasn't an opinion of mine. Jake was looking very bad this year. Again, Fact.

FACT - John Fox sacrificed this season because he doesn't like Moore and wanted to "win" with Jake.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/28/jake-delhomme-still-the-starter-in-carolina/

"We feel like he gives us the best chance to win," Fox said. "Going through and looking at some of our mishaps I don't think it's one guy and I think he still gives us the best chance to win."

I don't think I have to post a link on Jake's broken finger once our season ended.

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/carolina-panthers/28952-interesting-conversation-this-week.html

When I asked about Matt Moore, he had another perspective I had not heard much. Fox preferred Delhomme, McCown, and even Cantwell to Moore, but not because of anything on the field. Mainly, it was a personality thing. Fox described Moore as being"not a football player". It comes down to nothing on the field, but simply a personality conflict

Like I said, none of this is my opinion. Jake showed at the Bills game how horrible he was. There was no way we were going to the playoffs let alone a winning season with him at helm. That's not my opinion that Delhomme was tanking our season, that was reality. The main argument was whether Fox was keeping Jake in because he didn't like Moore, Moore looked bad, or Moore didn't know the "playbook". Zod aka Beason answered that. Also, Fox has stated he would have a hard time "benching" Delhomme. It would be my opinion if this didn't happen yet, but it already happened. We now know that even if Fox didn't like Moore or his work ethics or w/e...he wanted to win with Delhomme and didn't really care how bad he was playing. He put his philosophy and relationship with Delhomme over the team.

http://www.heraldonline.com/247/story/1708777.html

Ex:

Along with retaining the starting position, the coaching staff has agreed to back off some of the micro-managing of Delhomme's mechanics — which some feel has held him back this year.

Blaming Scherer for Delhomme's problems yet Delhomme continues to mess up.

The rest is opinions of mine...accurate ones. All you have to do is play each scenario out.

Scenario #1 - Fox goes into camp with a competition of Delhomme and Moore. Moore wins out and starts next season.

a.) Moore plays good enough for us to make the playoffs

b.) Moore plays bad for an extended amount of time, we put Delhomme in aka END OF THE SEASON.

Scenario #2 - Fox goes into camp with a competition of Delhomme and Moore. Delhomme wins out and starts next season. Fans mob/protest/etc...losing a good chunk of the fanbase on a small market team right before a lockout.

a.) Delhomme plays like crap and tanks our season again

b.) Delhomme plays like crap and is pulled, but the damage is already done fanbase-wise unless we make the playoffs.

c.) Delhomme regains form and plays average, we make the playoffs.

d.) Delhomme regains form and plays average, yet we miss the playoffs.

Scenario #3 - Fox goes into camp with a competition of Delhomme and FA/Rookie after losing Moore. Delhomme WILL win out. Fans become even MORE pissed for trading away our "future".

Repeat Scenario #2's a-d

Scenario #4 - Fox goes into camp with a competion of Moore and FA/Rookie. Moore probably will win out.

Blah blah blah, you get the rest.

Like I said, going into camp or the season with Moore and Delhomme is setting ourselves up thin and failure IMO because we're putting EVERYTHING on Moore to not only play well, but to stay healthy as well. Everyone knows Fox will probably be gone next year and Delhomme WILL be cut next year. We already know what we have with Delhomme, washed-up QB. The fact we have Jake slated to battle Moore for the starting job is laughable. I don't hear about guys like Shaun Hill or Kerry Collins battling Alex Smith and Vince Young respectively. When a young guy outplays an old guy to that magnitude, you move on. We just haven't figured out common NFL logic yet.

[HPPantherzfan]

Lemme help you out cuz you're still not getting it.

FACT - There was no competition at QB due to Fox's loyalty and the extension.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4092544

That is a fact. There was NO competition. Geez...there was no way Moore or McCown was going to start over Delhomme this year. I don't blame Fox for starting Jake, I blame him and Hurney for giving Delhomme that extension therefore forcing Jake to start.

FACT - Jake has played bad this whole season. Bad in camp, bad in the scrimmage (was booed off), bad in the preseason, and bad in the opener(benched).

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/16910-jake-gets-boos-at-fan-fest-2.html

http://americansportsblog.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/jake-delhomme-youll-be-the-death-of-me-and-youre-killing-john-fox/

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2098505/carolina_panthers_injuries_creating.html?cat=14

There is more, but I think this pretty much sums this up. Like I said, this wasn't an opinion of mine. Jake was looking very bad this year. Again, Fact.

FACT - John Fox sacrificed this season because he doesn't like Moore and wanted to "win" with Jake.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/28/jake-delhomme-still-the-starter-in-carolina/

I don't think I have to post a link on Jake's broken finger once our season ended.

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/carolina-panthers/28952-interesting-conversation-this-week.html

Like I said, none of this is my opinion. Jake showed at the Bills game how horrible he was. There was no way we were going to the playoffs let alone a winning season with him at helm. That's not my opinion that Delhomme was tanking our season, that was reality. The main argument was whether Fox was keeping Jake in because he didn't like Moore, Moore looked bad, or Moore didn't know the "playbook". Zod aka Beason answered that. Also, Fox has stated he would have a hard time "benching" Delhomme. It would be my opinion if this didn't happen yet, but it already happened. We now know that even if Fox didn't like Moore or his work ethics or w/e...he wanted to win with Delhomme and didn't really care how bad he was playing. He put his philosophy and relationship with Delhomme over the team.

http://www.heraldonline.com/247/story/1708777.html

Ex:

Blaming Scherer for Delhomme's problems yet Delhomme continues to mess up.

The rest is opinions of mine...accurate ones. All you have to do is play each scenario out.

Scenario #1 - Fox goes into camp with a competition of Delhomme and Moore. Moore wins out and starts next season.

a.) Moore plays good enough for us to make the playoffs

b.) Moore plays bad for an extended amount of time, we put Delhomme in aka END OF THE SEASON.

Scenario #2 - Fox goes into camp with a competition of Delhomme and Moore. Delhomme wins out and starts next season. Fans mob/protest/etc...losing a good chunk of the fanbase on a small market team right before a lockout.

a.) Delhomme plays like crap and tanks our season again

b.) Delhomme plays like crap and is pulled, but the damage is already done fanbase-wise unless we make the playoffs.

c.) Delhomme regains form and plays average, we make the playoffs.

d.) Delhomme regains form and plays average, yet we miss the playoffs.

Scenario #3 - Fox goes into camp with a competition of Delhomme and FA/Rookie after losing Moore. Delhomme WILL win out. Fans become even MORE pissed for trading away our "future".

Repeat Scenario #2's a-d

Scenario #4 - Fox goes into camp with a competion of Moore and FA/Rookie. Moore probably will win out.

Blah blah blah, you get the rest.

Like I said, going into camp or the season with Moore and Delhomme is setting ourselves up thin and failure IMO because we're putting EVERYTHING on Moore to not only play well, but to stay healthy as well. Everyone knows Fox will probably be gone next year and Delhomme WILL be cut next year. We already know what we have with Delhomme, washed-up QB. The fact we have Jake slated to battle Moore for the starting job is laughable. I don't hear about guys like Shaun Hill or Kerry Collins battling Alex Smith and Vince Young respectively. When a young guy outplays an old guy to that magnitude, you move on. We just haven't figured out common NFL logic yet.

/Thread :auto:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to AceMan again.

Edit: And btw P55...yes, if you consider college baseball a competitive sport; I have played in them thus giving me the FIRST HAND experience of watching people SUCK at practice to light it up on gameday...happens EVERYWHERE in EVERY SPORT...I don't care how well they perform in TC or Pre-Season, I want W's and Moore proves he can supply me with those!

To give you an example of this...they say Micheal Jordan was a horrible practice player. With that said, its in your opinion he probably should have never touched the court; AMIRITE?

[panthers55]

You two are hopeless. You go right back to asserting your so-called facts and use opinion pieces to try and back it up. It works the other way, you typically use facts to inform your opinions. You say there was no competition but fail to demonstrate it at all. The article you quoted on the extension said nothing about competition in fact it wasn't even related. And you really think that quoting Marty Hurney gives you insight into what is going on behind closed doors instead of him doing his usual managing the media. I bet you read John Fox articles expecting nuggets of knowledge as well, LOL.

Using a blog by a fan, an opinion piece and a huddle thread to say Jake played bad is another example of your convoluted logic. Why not just use real facts like the stats fron NFL. com rather than opinion pieces which by their nature are not factual but opinion. We agree he played bad so why go all around the horn on the obvious and fail to include any facts or evidence. Once again, using someone else opinion to back your own means now 2 of you agree. It doesn't make it a fact. It makes it a shared opinion held by more than one person.

Then you go on to say you proved he sacrificed the season using another opinion article which is only tangentially related to the topic at all.

As for the rest they are your opinions. Are they accurate? A little early to say since they aconsist of ranting and speculation about what will happen in the future. Unless you are Nostradamus you only hazarded a guess.

So you went a long way to prove nothing. Now we know the sources you used to gather your speculations and opinions. Still they aren't facts nor did you support the majority of them with facts. You just showed alot of unrelated or tangential articles which had few if any facts, numbers but stated their own opinions or views.

As for the basketball analogy, consider this. Any player who thinks they are fine without practice would be twice as good if they did. I don't care who you are, anyone who believes practice and hard work interfere with their skills are lazy undisciplined players making excuses.

Another fail.

Still I give you credit. Anyone who is naive enough to look at the long post and fail to analyze it at even a basic level might be prone to be impressed. But in the end it is all smokes and mirrors You remind me of a student I taught who figured if I can't impress them with my intelligence I will baffle them with my BS. Good job of baffling everyone. You get an A for effort.

[Gman was right]

LMAO! Dude they completely took you to school and its not even close. You are just too blinded by your love for Jake/Fox/Hurney to even see it.

The problem with having a "competition" is that it wouldnt even be fair since Fox and Hurney would do everything in their power to make sure jake would win so they dont look like fools for giving him that ridiculous extension.They are just too stubborn to realize that Jake is done and that they kept the better QB on the bench because they dont want to admit they made a mistake. Its clear P55 wants "competition" too just so his master can have a chance to redeem himself after making such a HORRIBLE decision.

[HPPantherzfan]

As for the basketball analogy, consider this. Any player who thinks they are fine without practice would be twice as good if they did. I don't care who you are, anyone who believes practice and hard work interfere with their skills are lazy undisciplined players making excuses.

Another fail.

/Sigh!

Yet another example of you yourself being "baffle"d by your own BS!

I never said Michael did not practice...in fact he did, and practiced very hard...here let me quote what I actually said:

To give you an example of this...they say Micheal Jordan was a horrible practice player. With that said, its in your opinion he probably should have never touched the court; AMIRITE?

He was just horrible during practice! No one, including Dean Smith when he was at Carolina, could understand how he could be so GREAT in games...Come on, Dean only played the greatest player of all time for around 15 min a game...why? Because he didn't practice well! Geez

Great practices, pre-season, TC, etc etc != Great game time play! Sorry it just doesn't!

Now, in no way am I saying that a great work ethic is bad...in fact it is very important! But, since you are a teacher and all, I would assume you would realize that some people accel in different things; you know, like that pet student you have that talks all intellectual and junk but then you grade his test and DAMN he is freakin stupid! That stoner kid though, you know the one im sure, the one in the back of the class that keeps making straight A's; you just can't understand, kinda like football apparenlty! :boxing_smiley:

I really don't wanna get in a pissing match with you bacause I think we can both agree that our "opinions" vary greatly on this subject, and many others I'm sure. We just aren't going to agree; but for the love of god, when we are 4-12 next season, even with a weak schedule, with Jake as our starter because of great play when it doesn't matter = "Jake gives us the best chance to win" comes into play; pull this thread back up and at least laugh at yourself for the BS you try to baffle us with

[rico6]

If it takes a whole draft to realize/accept that Matt Moore is the starter then I really feel bad for this franchise.

Does Matt have to rip of Peyton's skin and wear it to get a starting gig? Holy hell..

[HPPantherzfan]

If it takes a whole draft to realize/accept that Matt Moore is the starter then I really feel bad for this franchise.

Does Matt have to rip of Peyton's skin and wear it to get a starting gig? Holy hell..

I think they realize Matt is of starter quality, the problem is, the Franchise has a lot invested in someone riding the bench.

Next year will be a "interview" year for Fox...he will either suck it up and start the right person then deal with all the questions, every interview, regarding the poor decision to not just extend but offer the farm to a Quarterback that had a lackluster season (When looking at overall QB numbers) and a horrible final showing in the playoffs! This would look pretty bad on him IMO; or he will start Jake and hope he pulls out of his funk then everyone would think he is a genious, just like every other year!

Sad fact is, if Fox is here Jake is more than likely our starter!