If fox is let go does hurney stay?

[SuperLego5]

So I guess we are just going to ignore all his mistakes and only focus on his successes, man I'm glad your not the owner. Ignore that his decision to tagged Pep pretty much ruined the 2009 season, his countless mistakes in the 2nd, or his numerous high-priced FA busts.

You're just making up crap to support your argument. If Delhomme threw half the INT's he did we probably would have made the playoffs, tagging Peppers was not what held us back last year.

Excluding the last couple of years because they haven't played enough to trully judge them but Hurney got both Ryan Kalil and Richard Marshall in the second, as of late Hurney has been pretty sound in the 2nd. I wouldn't be surprised to find out we have a better record in the late rounds than most.

To your final point, which high priced FA busts? Ken Lucas wasn't a complete disaster, at the very least he was competent. Hurney's ability to find mid level FA's and make them starters is very impressive. All the while staying under the cap.

Don't get me wrong Hurney has made plenty of mistakes but he seems to learn from them.

In my opinion Hurney is a victim of his own success, this team would be great if we had somebody who could win games from the QB position when we are behind but because of Hurney and Fox we're never in a position to make a move for a franchise QB. With any luck we now have that QB and this is where the dynasty begins! (I'd settle for back-to-back winning seasons)

[Lumps]

I like them both and think they should both stay given they can get results/progress this year from all their decisions. If Fox can get a winning record with these new guys it is probably a smart thing to resign him.

[calipanther]

I think Hurney is a really good Gm. I started the thread cause it would worry me that if Fox was let go Hurney might not come back. He has been nothing short of phenomenal in the 1st round of the draft and I think his picks after that have been more than adequate. For the record, I'd say his "gaffes" in the 2nd round are blown way out of proportion. Aside from Jarret and Eric Shelton all have been or would have been solid contributors. His free agents signings have been lucrative pretty consistently aside from Landon Johnson. I think honestly it would be a big setback if he were not retained.

[panthers55]

I really doubt Hurney wants to stay if Fox is gone Hunrey won't stay

[jramsey4]

You're just making up crap to support your argument. If Delhomme threw half the INT's he did we probably would have made the playoffs, tagging Peppers was not what held us back last year.

Excluding the last couple of years because they haven't played enough to trully judge them but Hurney got both Ryan Kalil and Richard Marshall in the second, as of late Hurney has been pretty sound in the 2nd. I wouldn't be surprised to find out we have a better record in the late rounds than most.

To your final point, which high priced FA busts? Ken Lucas wasn't a complete disaster, at the very least he was competent. Hurney's ability to find mid level FA's and make them starters is very impressive. All the while staying under the cap.

Don't get me wrong Hurney has made plenty of mistakes but he seems to learn from them.

In my opinion Hurney is a victim of his own success, this team would be great if we had somebody who could win games from the QB position when we are behind but because of Hurney and Fox we're never in a position to make a move for a franchise QB. With any luck we now have that QB and this is where the dynasty begins! (I'd settle for back-to-back winning seasons)

Every one he has attempted pretty much (Whale, Lucas was not even close to worth his deal, and Key were all IMO busts). And tagging Pep cost JR 20 million pretty much so whether or not it ruined our season depends entirely on how stubborn Fox would have been if Hurney (or himself I really can't be sure that was entirely Hurneys decision) had not screwed up and extended Jake. But what doesn't change is he pissed away 20 million (and to 2 different players in one year: Jake and Pep)

I for one don't think any coach is stupid enough to continue to play Jake after what he played like at the start of the season, unless there was a deeper reason. He was hoping he would turn it around so that that contract wouldn't have looked so bad. That contract handcuffed there decision to stick with Jake IMO so yes the entire problem can and should be traced back to that one decision to tag Pep.

Like i continuly have to say to you because you refuse to read, I like Hurney and admit (and even have made a couple writeups about how much I like him http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/carolina-panthers/33422-panthers-trash-can-kings.html#post2438201) but he is not a GM that we can't replace. So as I said I'm fine if he walks.

[nagai]

Hurney has had some pretty terrible moves in the past. Pep and Jake = argh. He's also had a lot of good ones though. We manage to resign a lot of our key players year after year as well as draft some gems thanks to his BPA philosophy. The problem with this team has always been the coaching imo, the talent has been fine. If Fox goes, I would hope that Hurney stays.

[pantherclaw]

Good draft picks, bad draft picks. Personel extensions, decisions.

First of all, no one person makes draft decisions by themselves since hurney has been here. It's a three pronged processs that includes the director of scouting, our head coach, and mr hurney.

Second. Delhomme extension and tagging peppers. Delhomme and richardson were pretty close. As far as we know, richardson could have instructed hurney to keep delhomme at all costs. We really don't know...it is all speculation. Letting peppers go last off season wasn't really a choice. They wanted him here, needed him here, and wasn't going to let him walk. Plus having to make some wiggle room under the cap for the rookies, and emergency additions. That is not a good situation to be in regardless whom is the gm.

People around here seem to think being a gm is cut and dry. Don't we all wish it was so simple. We don't know all that is involved. Do know hurney has done well for the panthers,

And we could certainly do worse at both the gm and head coaching positions.

I hope they both stay.

[1789Cardiac Cats9020]

to quote a wise guy by the name of Homer Simpson "N O"

[DaveThePanther2008]

I think we should FIRE HURNEY and bring in JRAMSEY4

Obviously we have a GM GOD in the HUDDLE and we don't know it.

Your comment about only 3 players left from 2003 is exactly the point. This team is still in the mix and we have practically replace the entire squad.

You constantly say everyone focuses on the good and never the bad. You focus only on the negative and never on what has been done.

Your OPINION on Free Agent Bust is absurd. Key a bust, Wahle a bust, Lucas a bust?? Maybe not stellar but definitely not Bust. Wahle of the 3 might be the worst. But KEY AND LUCAS started the entire time they were here. Key was part of an awesome running game and Lucas was part of a pretty solid defense. Especially considering Trogcrap was the DC for most of the time.

The salary cap issues created by Peppers wasn't Hurney's fault. He did everything he could to get Peppers to sign a long term deal. The deal with Jake was terrible and unjustifiable but he did what he needed to do and if you are gonna throw money away I would have rather see Jake get it then Pep.

You can fuss and moan about our draft picks all you want but since 2005 Carolina has had 42 draft picks all but 5 are still playing football and most of them are Panthers. ONLY ONE team had less than 5 players out of the league and that was the NY Giants and they had few picks than we did.

New England was in Double digits players not in the NFL anymore.

I am sure in your infinite wisdom you will somehow spin these facts to make your OPINION accurate.

JRAMSEY4 I have no clue why you are a Panther fan,, cause you bitch about everything this team does. Be happy we aren't a doormat franchise like Detroit or St Louis.

Go back and look at the Colt and New England before Brady and Manning. They were perennial losers. It isn't their GM genius it is their QB.

[Cyberjag]

So I guess we are just going to ignore all his mistakes and only focus on his successes, man I'm glad your not the owner. Ignore that his decision to tagged Pep pretty much ruined the 2009 season, his countless mistakes in the 2nd, or his numerous high-priced FA busts. BTW I wish people hear would stop living in 2003 that was 7 years ago. We have a grand total of 3 guys still on our roster from then.

And because you have ignored my saying so in almost every post I will say it again, I think Hurney is a good GM but I am not going lose any sleep if he walks. He really didn't start becoming a good drafting GM until Gregory took over. And to beat you to it I know about his sucess in the 1st but past that before Gregory he was very suspect once you got out of the 1st.

In other words, you don't mind being highly critical of him, you don't care if we lose him, and you can't think of anyone better to have. Have I effectively summarized your position?

[jramsey4]

I think we should FIRE HURNEY and bring in JRAMSEY4

Obviously we have a GM GOD in the HUDDLE and we don't know it.

Your comment about only 3 players left from 2003 is exactly the point. This team is still in the mix and we have practically replace the entire squad.

You constantly say everyone focuses on the good and never the bad. You focus only on the negative and never on what has been done.

Your OPINION on Free Agent Bust is absurd. Key a bust, Wahle a bust, Lucas a bust?? Maybe not stellar but definitely not Bust. Wahle of the 3 might be the worst. But KEY AND LUCAS started the entire time they were here. Key was part of an awesome running game and Lucas was part of a pretty solid defense. Especially considering Trogcrap was the DC for most of the time.

The salary cap issues created by Peppers wasn't Hurney's fault. He did everything he could to get Peppers to sign a long term deal. The deal with Jake was terrible and unjustifiable but he did what he needed to do and if you are gonna throw money away I would have rather see Jake get it then Pep.

You can fuss and moan about our draft picks all you want but since 2005 Carolina has had 42 draft picks all but 5 are still playing football and most of them are Panthers. ONLY ONE team had less than 5 players out of the league and that was the NY Giants and they had few picks than we did.

New England was in Double digits players not in the NFL anymore.

I am sure in your infinite wisdom you will somehow spin these facts to make your OPINION accurate.

JRAMSEY4 I have no clue why you are a Panther fan,, cause you bitch about everything this team does. Be happy we aren't a doormat franchise like Detroit or St Louis.

Go back and look at the Colt and New England before Brady and Manning. They were perennial losers. It isn't their GM genius it is their QB.

Its amazing how you use 2 QBs (that they drafted) that turn out to be 2 of the best, ever as reasons why a GM is not considered elite. Sure talk about how "Lucky" the Patriots were to get Brady late, dismiss all there efforts on scouting him. The Pats are a system in which there type of where they can just plug and play the next guy in line when there is injury and not miss a beat. When Brady got injured a guy that hadn't started since HS came in and played good enough to almost make the playoffs.

Key and Lucas got starter money so they started neither justified the contracts they got. And I only gave 3 examples because Hurney realized long ago that this FO sucks at scouting and signing the top-tier FA.

So I am a terrible Fan because I question the moves a FO makes. Oh yes that makes sense then every one on here is a terrible fan.

Sure I'll take the GM spot if your offering it.

In other words, you don't mind being highly critical of him, you don't care if we lose him, and you can't think of anyone better to have. Have I effectively summarized your position?

Yes I can Marc Ross. But otherwise yes. And lord forbid the untouchable Panthers FO makes a mistake and a fan calls them out on it. Oh no how awful a fan I am. I give credit where it is due and criticism when I believe it is due. How am I different then anyone on this board? Just because you don't agree with a view doesn't make it wrong.

[AceMan]

I think we should FIRE HURNEY and bring in JRAMSEY4

Obviously we have a GM GOD in the HUDDLE and we don't know it.

Your comment about only 3 players left from 2003 is exactly the point. This team is still in the mix and we have practically replace the entire squad.

You constantly say everyone focuses on the good and never the bad. You focus only on the negative and never on what has been done.

Your OPINION on Free Agent Bust is absurd. Key a bust, Wahle a bust, Lucas a bust?? Maybe not stellar but definitely not Bust. Wahle of the 3 might be the worst. But KEY AND LUCAS started the entire time they were here. Key was part of an awesome running game and Lucas was part of a pretty solid defense. Especially considering Trogcrap was the DC for most of the time.

The salary cap issues created by Peppers wasn't Hurney's fault. He did everything he could to get Peppers to sign a long term deal. The deal with Jake was terrible and unjustifiable but he did what he needed to do and if you are gonna throw money away I would have rather see Jake get it then Pep.

Stopped reading at the bolded. It was clearly Hurney's fault and poor long-term management. I agree with the supersized part though. But, if you throw away money...you would rather Jake get it???...C'mon man! :eek:

I think Hurney is a good GM. He's not as great as some supporters are making him out to be and not as bad as some haters are.

[Cyberjag]

Yes I can Marc Ross. But otherwise yes. And lord forbid the untouchable Panthers FO makes a mistake and a fan calls them out on it. Oh no how awful a fan I am. I give credit where it is due and criticism when I believe it is due. How am I different then anyone on this board? Just because you don't agree with a view doesn't make it wrong.

Marc Ross has never held a GM job, he's the director of Scouting. And there's no evidence that he's any better than Don Gregory. He's never had to negotiate a contract, execute a trade, or manage the cap.

But whatever, you say he's better than Hurney so he must be. And the guy who started in the mail room at your company last week is probably better at whatever you do than you are, for the same reasons that Ross is better than Hurney.

[Wither]

Its amazing how you use 2 QBs (that they drafted) that turn out to be 2 of the best, ever as reasons why a GM is not considered elite.

Dude, you completely skipped the part where he called you out about the draft pick busts. Lmao; just skip the parts that are true, eh?

i think this is the guy calling the shots this year. i SERIOUSLY doubt that fox or hurney would have cut all these vets on there own.

Let me guess: you read that on this board and now you are regurgitating it whenever necessary, eh?