Hurney shouldn't be fired for two main reasons

[rmoneyg35]

They do if they're following instructions from an owner who followed a strategy for the year who, they have admitted, was a miscalculation.

If I were told to go out and change my tire with only a pair of scissors I wouldn't be too successful - it wouldn't mean I couldn't change a tire given the proper tools to do so.

If the "go cheap go young and f*ck the world approach" is lifted and the Panthers produce another extremely poorly managed team after NEXT year then I say off with his head. But I think he deserves that chance considering that I believe the sum of his good moves outweighs the sum of his bad ones.

I agree with you. Sure a 2-13 record is nothing to be proud of but our front office was preparing for the CBA lockout, which is still a possibility. Not as likely as it was a few months ago but there still hasn't been an agreement but it does seem like there will be an agreement soon. If there was a lock out then our team would be prepared and the 2-13 record could be over looked for the money our team would have saved compared to other teams in the lockout.

Next year we will have a lot of cap room and the #1 pick in the draft so our team will have the most cash for free agents this year and we will have a lot more pull than any other team because we can out bid and pay more than any other team.

I don't know what players are going to be free agents because the CBA could change the number of years for players to be a RFA/UFA and no one know what the salary cap is going to be next year, assuming there will be a cap.

[Cyberjag]

It's all about what have you done for me lately. Nobody wants to live in the past 10 years ago when Kevin Greene played. His personnel moves in the past 5 years have been below average.

In the past five years Hurney has drafted DeAngelo Williams, Richard Marshall, James Anderson, Jeff King, Jon Beason, Ryan Kalil, Charles Johnson, Dante Rosario, Jonathan Stewart, Jeff Otah, Charles Godfrey, Dan Connor, Everette Brown, Sherrod Martin, Mike Goodson, Tony Fiametta, Captain Munnerlyn, Brandon LaFell, David Gettis, and Greg Hardy. He's found and signed Maake Kemoeatu, Damione Lewis, Tyler Brayton, and Keydrick Vincent.

I'm not sure, but I think you might find at least two or three pretty damned good moves in there if you look hard enough.

What proof do you have that Jerry is selecting the players?

He's not selecting the players, and it was never suggested that he was. However, in this off-season the entire character of the way the team did business was turned on it's head. All the veterans were released from a team that's normally heavy with them. No free agents were signed to a team that routinely goes out and gets the lower tier free agents to see if they can stick. And the owner sent out a letter accepting responsibility late in the year. Hurney works for JR, and was clearly doing as he was told.

[Cavscout]

I think Hurney is staying...no way JR gets rid of his puppet

[philp]

yeah i like hurney. every now and then you gamble and it doesn't work out. but hell, people complain either way. but he's taking it like a man and i think we can all respect that. they know the problem now is coaching, that's why hurney stays and fox doesn't.

[pantherclaw]

You can only name 2 things that Hurney has done wrong? How about getting a GM that has some balls and whose not a yes man.

1. Bringing in Keyshawn Johnson- MISTAKEWe needed a vet that could produce opposite of Steve Smith. He did. Just cause we didn't win a championship that year, it was mistake by Hurney?

2. David Carr-MISTAKEThe intention when grabbing Carr, is that he'd ride the bench for at least a season..instead he was thrust into the lineup (due to injury) still battered from the beating he took behind Houston's turnstyle. Oh yeah, that's definitely Hurney's mistake!

3. Dwayne Jarrett- MISTAKEA pick didn't pan out? OMG, that is Hurney's fault!

4. Jimmy Clausen/ Trade- MISTAKEWe didn't trade for Clausen, that is your mistake.

5. Armanti Edwards/ Trade- MISTAKEThe player has yet to have a chance to make an impact, good, bad, or otherwise. That's your mistake for your impatience and lack of understanding.

6. Peppers gone- Best Player in FRANCHISE History- MistakePeppers was offered the richest contract in the NFL for ANY defensive player. Peppers decided not to sign. He decided to go else where. Just cause you wanted the team to slap the tag on him, and try to push a trade, doesn't make it a mistake either.

7. Letting Muhsin Muhammad go- MISTAKEMoose got paid $30+ million to go play for the Bears. He wasn't worth that to this team, but that's Hurney's mistake also?

I could go on if you'd like. To not put any of the blame except for the Delhomme and Brown debacle is ludacris. The guy has not had a good track record.

I can go on and on, and on, but your lack of understanding would have you, once again, failing to grasp anything of importance.

[pstall]

notice the dif between Polian and Hurney? One knew more than the owner, had the balls to tell him so and was let go and has done pretty well.

The other tows the company line to save HIS job and that's about it.

Of the list provided by jag how many are starting on other teams? Dwill, Stew,Beason, Otah, Kahlil maybe and that might be it.

If you are gonna judge Hurney by following orders, sure, keep him. We will be having this same discussion a year from now.

If you judge Hurney by Pro Bowlers he has drafted that's one way. Or you can look at possible starters for other teams, mentioned above and that's something. Or you can look at value vs slot selection in the draft vs money and productivity. You guys sure you want to use that metric?

I don't think he is a bad GM. But I don't hold him up there is uber high regard as a genius either.

[Cyberjag]

Polian left because he got the job that Mark Richardson did for the Panthers. It wasn't because he told JR anything in particular.

And I think a lot of our draft picks would be starting for most teams. Certainly the first rounders, and a fair share of the others. Hurney's done a pretty good job identifying talent, but with Fox's success, he hasn't had a really high pick to play with since Peppers.

[pstall]

a good GM,say like the Pat's have had,understand that with winning comes a high draft pick, thus you trade for value and MORE picks to compenstate for your on the field sucess that results in high picks.

Carolina hasn't figured how to do that.

[frash.exe]

it's funny.

you used to hear on this site about "how could anybody think Jake is a bad QB he's above average he's like a poor man's elway look at his starting record"

then a little later on you heard "how could anybody think John Fox is anything less than a great coach look at his record as a coach"

now it's hurney

i get the feeling some people are obsessed with clinging on to every last piece of the 2000s Panthers organization they possibly can. honestly IMO you could pour the clorox on the entire coaching staff and player personnel executives minus Don Gregory and the scouting team and Rob Rodgers, (the guys who've helped hurney make some of those draft picks and create the contracts)

[mav1234]

Of the list provided by jag how many are starting on other teams? Dwill, Stew,Beason, Otah, Kahlil maybe and that might be it.

I don't think he is a bad GM. But I don't hold him up there is uber high regard as a genius either.

he's no genius, but you are selling those players listed by Jag very short. IMO, the vast majority of those guys who are not rookies would be starting on other teams (minus the tight ends and corner backs), and I think you'd see Gettis & Lafell putting up some really nice numbers if they had a quarterback other than Clausen.

I think ultimately Hurney is a decent GM who can get a bit loose with his future draft picks. A good coach and owner can help limit that, and hopefully he won't be quite so free-wheeling now that we are really in rebuilding mode and not after winning ASAP.

[pantherclaw]

Clinging to Hurney?

Don't see anyone clinging to him.

It's certainly not my decision.

If he is let go, I just hope his replacement does at least as good of a job as Hurney has, and that isn't as easy as MOST people make it out to be.

[Lakejamescat]

The John Fox era was an improvement over the previous years because he brought an identity for the Panthers team. Like many fans I became frustrated with the predictable play calling and the seemingly poor draft pick and free agent busts. I am not sure how much of a different team image I want as a fan. I think it is important to continue to have a "players coach" on the sidelines to help attract FA in the near future. I believe JR needs to get the CBA issue addressed quickly or if not he needs to take an aggressive role in making the Panthers organization attractive to players.

[Cyberjag]

I think that some of the haters need to make up their mind about whether the team under-achieved because Fox got predictable, or whether it was because Hurney never provided him with the talent necessary to excel.

And Patrick, how would the New England Director of Player Personnel (they don't have a GM) look today had they not gotten lucky with Tom Brady? Would they finally have figured out how to find a cornerback? And in Indy, would Polian look as smart without Manning? There are a ton of elements at play on a pro football team...

[Kevin Greene]

a good GM,say like the Pat's have had,understand that with winning comes a high draft pick, thus you trade for value and MORE picks to compenstate for your on the field sucess that results in high picks.

Carolina hasn't figured how to do that.

You also trade away a player like Richard Seymour (read Julius Peppers)who at 30 and being due for a huge contract are prime trade bait. A poorly run team like the Raiders ships you a #1 pick in this scenario. And if an idiot like Hurney calls and wants your 3rd rounder (for his 2nd, which likely will be at the top of the round) you chuckle quietly and accept.