QB vs D-line: Bust vs Studs in Recent NFL Drafts

[R0CKnR0LLA]

It's one thing when you have a Suh vs Bradford debate, where Bradford had alot of question marks and Suh looked like the biggest DT prospect in a decade and the consensus best player in the draft.

This year it's not even close, the DT class is horrible and Luck is far and away a better prospect than any of them.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Personally I'd take Luck, draft mostly offense (but BPA) and rape the Giants DLine in free agency (Barry Cofield and Mathias Kiwanuka).

[theyhateme45]

Again, there is a difference between Franchise QB and Good QB.

IMO Good is someone who is just a place holder and will not screw things up... Not A Qb you build around... He's there, but if opportunity for a better Qb comes up you take it.

A Franchise Qb is won that you build around- One where you are not out looking for upgrade at the position. A Qb who can make plays and win games for you. Someone who controls the offense and is not just a facilitator. Do this year end and Year out. Doesn't mean your a top 5 QB. IMO this a Jay cutler... Chicago is not looking to replace Cutler anytime soon. He is leading the team.. IE Franchise. People Hate him because of his personality.... But this is just a GENERAL objective view of the positions.

Once again if you want to nitpick good vs Franchise... then there would be defensive players who are good... But not Franchise Build around defensive players either.

[pantherfan81]

It's one thing when you have a Suh vs Bradford debate, where Bradford had alot of question marks and Suh looked like the biggest DT prospect in a decade and the consensus best player in the draft.

This year it's not even close, the DT class is horrible and Luck is far and away a better prospect than any of them.

^^^^This. Also, same thing could be said about Luck like Suh last year. He's the most hyped QB in recent memory, even more so than Ryan.

[TheRealDeal]

IMO Good is someone who is just a place holder and will not screw things up... Not A Qb you build around... He's there, but if opportunity for a better Qb comes up you take it.

A Franchise Qb is won that you build around- One where you are not out looking for upgrade at the position. A Qb who can make plays and win games for you. Someone who controls the offense and is not just a facilitator. Do this year end and Year out. Doesn't mean your a top 5 QB. IMO this a Jay cutler... Chicago is not looking to replace Cutler anytime soon. He is leading the team.. IE Franchise. People Hate him because of his personality.... But this is just a GENERAL objective view of the positions.

Once again if you want to nitpick good vs Franchise... then there would be defensive players who are good... But not Franchise Build around defensive players either.

I don't think Cutler is a Franchise guy by your own definition. He has never had a winning season until this season and that is not getting it down year in and year out. People overreact and put too much stock in QBs performances. Before last night's game, everyone was saying "Matty Ice" was the next Brady but when his run game got taken away he looked like Clausen. Yet people still refer to him as a "Franchise QB" just because they know his name and they aren't fan enough to really understand how their team works.

I know I'm not going to change any minds but I was in the minority as well before the beginning of the season on Clausen and we all saw how that turned out.

That reminds me, everyone referred to him as our Franchise QB before the year as well

[theyhateme45]

I don't think Cutler is a Franchise guy by your own definition. He has never had a winning season until this season and that is not getting it down year in and year out. People overreact and put too much stock in QBs performances. Before last night's game, everyone was saying "Matty Ice" was the next Brady but when his run game got taken away he looked like Clausen. Yet people still refer to him as a "Franchise QB" just because they know his name and they aren't fan enough to really understand how their team works.

I know I'm not going to change any minds but I was in the minority as well before the beginning of the season on Clausen and we all saw how that turned out.

That reminds me, everyone referred to him as our Franchise QB before the year as well

We'll have to agree to disagree..... I watch Cutler play a lot because he's been my franchise QB in a dynasty league.... But the Cutler Debate is not the point of this thread, therefore I will just stop the debate at we agree to disagree.

[RSXNova]

From your list. Bradford, Stafford, Ryan, Eli were all considered the bonafide number 1 QB's in their respective draft. I think Luck fits in this group.

Russel rose to the top after everyone saw him throw on his knees. Vince Young was the mobile QB, but not a true pocket passer. Alex Smith...spread offense.

The traditional style qb's have had a lot more success than gimmick players in recent history. Now if these guys become busts because coaches give up,or they give up, is another story. This is why i dont want a guy like Newton.

2010

#1 Sam Bradford, Rams- Off to a promising start – Could be franchise QB of future

2009

#1 Matthew Stafford, Detroit – Plagued by injuries, otherwise off to a promising start- Could be franchise Qb of future

2008

#3 Matt Ryan, Atlanta- Don’t like him…. He is a franchise QB

2007

#1 Jamarcus Russel, Raiders/Home – Bust Bust Bust Bust Bust

2006

#3 Vince Young, Tennessee – Jury still out, but has underachieved and suffered too

2005

#1 Alex Smith, San Fran – Bust

2004

#1 Eli Manning, NY Giants – Probowl/Superbowl/Franchise QB

[ladypanther]

Great thread. It is all a gamble. If you win the gamble with the franchise QB....that is the best thing.

[TheRealDeal]

We'll have to agree to disagree..... I watch Cutler play a lot because he's been my franchise QB in a dynasty league.... But the Cutler Debate is not the point of this thread, therefore I will just stop the debate at we agree to disagree.

Good Decision

[frash.exe]

The point is a general look at the facts to clear a misconception that is out there.

Also I did not call Okoye a bust like I did others.... I simply said considered by SOME to be a bust, almost lost his job based on performance, but I think he is a decent player.... just not a top 10 pick.

You may not like Jay Cutler and his personality, but he is a Franchise QB.... People don't like his cockiness or his brett farve gunslinger mentality.... But he has the Bears at the top of the NFC with a underachieving defense, lack of consistent running game, and no real threats at wideout. He may not be a top 5 QB or whatever, but he is a Franchise QB.

the point is that there is a bias against QBs because they're the most scrutinized, the highest profile, and even their basic stats are complex compared to other positions.

[Snake]

We have picked Collins and we have picked Peppers. We seems to know our sh*t when it comes to picking top round picks. I would be a lot more worried in the second round. We have never been good there.

I just hope we get the right coach for the job cause we want have much Luck with Luck if we have Grimm as his coach. Still Newton or Clausen might work out fine under harbaugh.

[rayzor]

people have been too conditioned by being stuck with fox and hurney for too long. they keep going after the "safe" picks and where has that gotten us?

i just don't understand why people would want us to continue down the same route, esp. when that perceived safe route is no more safer than going after the more risky project.

if we draft luck and ends up busting people say you set the franchise back several years, but in relation to where we are, where exactly is that? we are already set back several years already. if we don't do anything we don't make ourselves any better.

going after D is simply the chickens way out. it's what fox would have chosen this year.

[theyhateme45]

people have been too conditioned by being stuck with fox and hurney for too long. they keep going after the "safe" picks and where has that gotten us?

i just don't understand why people would want us to continue down the same route, esp. when that perceived safe route is no more safer than going after the more risky project.

if we draft luck and ends up busting people say you set the franchise back several years, but in relation to where we are, where exactly is that? we are already set back several years already. if we don't do anything we don't make ourselves any better.

going after D is simply the chickens way out. it's what fox would have chosen this year.

I agree.... For those who don't believe in Luck, that's fine everyone can have their opinion.

Like you said, what people considered the safer route... Is no more safer or less risky than taking Luck or any top QB for that matter.

Especially this year when the financial risk is not there anymore.... QB's in the draft do get a little more than defensive players in the same spot, but the rookie pay scale will even eliminate that risk this year.

[Snake]

The only prospect I see better then Luck (if he declares) is a WR and thats not what we need. Some people thought Beason was a horrible pick cause we had Morgan and some people think Luck is a horrible pick cause we have Clausen.