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We’re back baby!!!! I’m drinking the Kool-AID


TheBigKat
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13 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Bryce's play after coming back from his benching gives me a glimmer of hope but it's wild that a lot of Panthers fans are acting like he has arrived as a franchise QB because he put up some mediocre stats and basically simply just finally didn't look like a guy who flat out did not belong on an NFL field. 

I'm anxious to see what he looks like this year and I'm hoping for continued growth but I still haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that he's capable of being a high level starter. Hoping he proves me wrong but honestly the worst case scenario would be that he comes out this year and plays like he did late last year. That's purgatory QB level. The type of guy who organizations get led to believe might be "good enough" but you're not competing for SBs with that level of QB play. I want Bryce to boom or bust this year. Go out there and prove me wrong and look like THAT DUDE or just revert back to looking like he doesn't belong. Don't leave me in purgatory. Let's get an answer to this question one way or the other.

Well said 

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43 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Bryce's play after coming back from his benching gives me a glimmer of hope but it's wild that a lot of Panthers fans are acting like he has arrived as a franchise QB because he put up some mediocre stats and basically simply just finally didn't look like a guy who flat out did not belong on an NFL field. 

I'm anxious to see what he looks like this year and I'm hoping for continued growth but I still haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that he's capable of being a high level starter. Hoping he proves me wrong but honestly the worst case scenario would be that he comes out this year and plays like he did late last year. That's purgatory QB level. The type of guy who organizations get led to believe might be "good enough" but you're not competing for SBs with that level of QB play. I want Bryce to boom or bust this year. Go out there and prove me wrong and look like THAT DUDE or just revert back to looking like he doesn't belong. Don't leave me in purgatory. Let's get an answer to this question one way or the other.

yeah, worst case scenario.....is Bryce is basically the same dude that played post benching last season.   

He has to take a pretty decent step forward or get worse IMO.  We make plans either way. 

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2 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, worst case scenario.....is Bryce is basically the same dude that played post benching last season.   

He has to take a pretty decent step forward or get worse IMO.  We make plans either way. 

Yeah, if that was his ceiling that's just not good enough to be the long-term answer but it might be good enough that the Panthers' brass doesn't have the guts to swing again.

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5 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

A Trevor Lawrence deal is the worst case scenario.

 At least with Lawrence he has all of the physical tools you could want in a QB. They still really screwed up paying him like the guy he could potentially be rather than the guy he is but I can kinda see how they got duped into that with him. With a guy like Bryce you know his physical upside is limited and he was supposed to be super NFL ready mentally. So if it's not clicking by year three and showing up on the field the red flags need to be flying big time. If he plateaus this year at the same level he was late last year it's going to be time to seriously consider drafting another QB high depending on how the draft board falls.

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11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, if that was his ceiling that's just not good enough to be the long-term answer but it might be good enough that the Panthers' brass doesn't have the guts to swing again.

What will get Morgan......is the D.  Essentially the w/l column. The D isn't currently capable of winning w/ such little O coming from the QB spot.   So if he is the same dude.....the L Tepper losing streak just continues on.   And you can't really sell....BUT just wait til year 4 given what dudes do year 1  in today's NFL. 

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9 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

 At least with Lawrence he has all of the physical tools you could want in a QB. They still really screwed up paying him like the guy he could potentially be rather than the guy he is but I can kinda see how they got duped into that with him. With a guy like Bryce you know his physical upside is limited and he was supposed to be super NFL ready mentally. So if it's not clicking by year three and showing up on the field the red flags need to be flying big time. If he plateaus this year at the same level he was late last year it's going to be time to seriously consider drafting another QB high depending on how the draft board falls.

Meh end result is the same.  You end up stuck with a roster built around a mid QB because you couldn't make the tough decision.  Hope we aren't forced into that position.  And if we are, I hope our guys make the right call.

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17 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Meh end result is the same.  You end up stuck with a roster built around a mid QB because you couldn't make the tough decision.  Hope we aren't forced into that position.  And if we are, I hope our guys make the right call.

It's just the difference between front office mentality and fan mentality. Front offices want to keep their jobs. Mediocre will keep you a job a lot longer than swinging for the fences and striking out. I mean, I get it. I can't be mad about it. It sucks, but in the same situation I'd probably make a lot more conservative decisions than I would vouch for as a fan.

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10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Ultimately, I really do hope that Bruce proves to be the guy. For one, that would be absolutely what's best for the Panthers. Secondly, Bryce really does seem like a truly decent and likeable guy. That's always fun to root for. 

I know it's all in the editing, but the Camp Confidential clips suggest that the *team* believes in Bryce. THEY'RE drinking the kool-aid that Dan & Dave are putting out

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1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's just the difference between front office mentality and fan mentality. Front offices want to keep their jobs. Mediocre will keep you a job a lot longer than swinging for the fences and striking out. I mean, I get it. I can't be mad about it. It sucks, but in the same situation I'd probably make a lot more conservative decisions than I would vouch for as a fan.

but we aren't even mediocre.  And Tepper's leash is not long.  Might as well swing for the fences in Tepper's gutter.  

I mean, a bad year pending how it falls......you got to think folks like Dan Morgan have high odds of looking for employment.  

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5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's just the difference between front office mentality and fan mentality. Front offices want to keep their jobs. Mediocre will keep you a job a lot longer than swinging for the fences and striking out. I mean, I get it. I can't be mad about it. It sucks, but in the same situation I'd probably make a lot more conservative decisions than I would vouch for as a fan.

Yea took me way too long to realize this.  The fan's only incentive is what's best for the team.  The front office guy's incentive is what's best for him.  And we'd all be that way.  That's how humans work.

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4 minutes ago, CRA said:

but we aren't even mediocre.  And Tepper's leash is not long.  Might as well swing for the fences in Tepper's gutter.  

I mean, a bad year pending how it falls......you got to think folks like Dan Morgan have high odds of looking for employment.  

My hope is that if we aren't very good and Bryce plateaus that if Morgan is retained that will be his mentality.

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    • In before: "XL sucks, there is no hope." "As long as we have Bryce, none of this matters." My response: "It's X, not XL...we're not discussing apparel sizes, or we'd have to consider XS."  
    • Alain Pierre provides some food for thought on Last Word On Sports regarding Xavier Legette, and his article, though specifically on X, kind of puts me in the mind of QBs being overdrafted and put into situations that they're not prepared for, some ultimately failing due to drafting missteps by front offices who don't necessarily view prospective players within the contextual importance that situations demand.  At this point, Legette looks like a failure in reference to expectations, of not only what a consistently productive NFL receiver looks like, but a first round pick (which he obviously should never have been). But the story on X isn't necessarily completely over. Damn. I seem to be experiencing deja vu...It wasn't X's fault that he was overdrafted, that was a choice by an FO that obviously downplayed actual realized skill vs outstanding measurables and upside. Sure, the FO was impressed by X's one-year feats during his senior season at South Carolina, but it was the NFL god, RAS (a.k.a. Raw Athletic Score), that had Dave Canales's and Dan Morgan's jaws dropping in amazement at the sight of X running around in underwear at the Combine...   "At 6-foot-3 and over 220 pounds, Legette brought rare athletic upside to the position. His breakout season at South Carolina showed flashes of dominance that NFL teams dream of. Projecting forward, many scouts compared his physical profile to D.K. Metcalf, and the Panthers clearly believed they could develop him into a true wide receiver 1 over time. The issue was never his talent. The issue was the timeline. Just a few picks later, the Chargers selected Ladd McConkey, a receiver who may have lacked Xavier Legette’s physical ceiling but entered the league far more technically refined. McConkey immediately showed advanced route discipline, leverage awareness, good pacing, and separation ability.  Bryce Young’s game has always depended on timing and anticipation. His best football at Alabama came with receivers capable of winning through precision rather than pure athleticism. Jameson Williams and John Metchie III were excellent route runners and were able to get drafted in 2022. McConkey naturally fit that style of play. Legette, meanwhile, needed significant development in the exact areas where Bryce Young needed help. The Panthers drafted traits when Bryce Young needed reliability."   Yes, the FO was guilty. The good thing is that the execs appear to be improving. Some of that may be attributed to the hiring of Eric Eager (who was hired right after the Xavier Legette draft). Eager seems to have helped the Panthers FO fine-tune their analytical progress, and, at least on paper, they acquired players with a lot of value during the last draft in regards to actually (what I'll refer to as) "underdrafting" talent relative to their position with value already built in.  Look at Chris Brazzell: He may be more of the quintessential project receiver who was arguably more or less just as raw as Legette was when he was drafted, and with a relatively high RAS as well. The notable difference is value, as Brazzell was a round three pick and Legette was a first rounder.    "Unlike the Xavier Legette situation, Carolina’s environment for Brazzell is completely different. "The Panthers are not asking a raw receiver prospect to stabilize this offense for Bryce Young. "Brazzell enters a much healthier developmental situation with far less pressure. With Tetairoa McMillan established as the primary target and Jalen Coker continuing to settle as the number 2 option...Xavier Legette, Metchie III, and Jimmy Horn Jr. are also still in this rotation, fighting for reps. "It gives Carolina something they failed to give Legette when they drafted him: A developmental runway. "Xavier Legette entered the league with expectations attached to a first-round pick and an offense desperate for answers. Brazzell enters a room where he can spend a year working on his route running, learning the playbook, and earning snaps gradually rather than being asked to become part of Bryce Young’s solution immediately. "And truthfully, Brazzell needs that time coming out of college. Despite his elite physical tools, many evaluators have several concerns about his overall polish as a receiver. "His route tree at Tennessee was viewed as fairly limited due to the type of offense that they run. The receivers are expected to run a lot of choice routes, which are dictated by the placement of the defenders. It doesn’t require technical route-running and an understanding of the playbook needed at the NFL level...   "Context changes significantly when expectations change. "The Panthers are not depending on Brazzell to save the offense. They can allow him to develop slowly, expand his route tree, improve his technical refinement, and learn behind a much more stable receiver room... "Traits become much easier to bet on when patience is built into the plan."   It's all about understanding your situation. I don't agree that it's an inherently difficult choice like the author is suggesting in the following excerpt. At the very least, I think that it should be easier as long as all parties involved stay levelheaded and true to their process.    "That is what makes these draft decisions so difficult. "Every front office believes it can find the next Metcalf, Owens, or Marshall. Sometimes they do. More often, they are betting on a development path that may take years to complete. "The challenge is understanding what your offense needs right now. "If a team has patience, stability, and a quarterback capable of carrying the offense while a receiver develops, betting on traits can make sense. But if a young quarterback needs immediate help, there is a strong argument for prioritizing the receiver who already knows how to separate, create throwing , and earn trust from day one. "That’s why the Xavier Legette-Ladd McConkey debate remains so fascinating. "It was never really a discussion about talent. It was a discussion about timing."   For me, Ladd McConkey was talented enough in his own right, that the gap--the upside--was never as big as people are suggesting between not only McConkey and Legette, but McConkey and other receivers drafted in the first round during that draft. The technique divide between Ladd and X was pretty stark though, as was the roughly 35 pounds, but the speed was identical, the maybe 1½ height difference isn't huge (6' and 6'1"), and it may surprise some that Ladd's RAS (9.34) was also enough to put him in the top 10 percent of receivers since 1987. There is an argument that he would've been a better pick for Bryce and the Panthers, regardless of timeline and talent. But, I still appreciate the thesis (if you will) of the article, as it still provides some hope--perhaps a glimmer at this point, that X's RAS may finally translate to the NFL given more time, but, perhaps more importantly, it explains how Dan Morgan and company are showing improvement, even if it appears somewhat understated. My hope is that continued improvement is palpable by this time next year. https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2026/05/30/xavier-legette-draft-lessons/#google_vignette        
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