Princely defends Icky while streaming

[Basbear]

2 minutes ago, TD alt said:

I mean, what are we arguing about here? I don't think anyone at this point (at least I hope) thinks that Icky is dog sh¡t. Now is he a top five OT in the league? No. Is that going to stop him from being paid like one? Maybe not if the nature of the beast---the business of player contracts and their negotiations within the context of recent history---comes into play. I think that we can all agree that Icky leaves a lot to be desired in pass pro, but is a beast in run blocking. Some suspect that he may be better as an OG, but the fact is is that even average LTs are hard to come by. As long as we don't have an elite LT, the belief that one is in the draft (and transcends other needs), the patience to wait for one to emerge, or the money and willingness to buy one, Icky is our best option. I think that we can all see that, regardless of PFF, right?

I think Icky is 24 or 25 years old. Think about that, he's had 4 full years in the NFL and only 25 years old. 

Heres a fact- Its harder to find good LTs than good QBs. 

Im not a big fan of his, at worst he's average among LTs. You have to pay him the going rate if not more cause you already got 4 years on one hell of a bargain. Panthers have invested 4 years and can not allow him good/great/average pass pro to walk. 

Heres another deal, the best LT is Trent williams and he is 37 years old. Id 100% take Icky over him right now, all based on age. Toss another comment, love it or hate it he's very similar in ways to Dbrown who's sorta "sucks"(borrowing Icky haters words) at pass rushing, while being great at run defense. Icky great at run and "sucks"(BS he's average or better) at pass protection. Just like dbrown there's no off-field non-sense and Panthers paid Dbrown. They should do the same with Icky. 

[TD alt]

12 minutes ago, Basbear said:

My deal is after years of straight up weak ass players playing soft, I more than welcome this confidence. He just needs to beware that its a thin line to cockiness and that's what you DO NOT want.  

 

I...I hope he's as good as he thinks he is.....

Honestly...I don't mind cockiness in an NFL player, even a young buck, but if you're going to be cocky, you damned sure better well bring the juice, even with the pads on. 

[TD alt]

5 minutes ago, Basbear said:

I think Icky is 24 or 25 years old. Think about that, he's had 4 full years in the NFL and only 25 years old. 

Heres a fact- Its harder to find good LTs than good QBs. 

Im not a big fan of his, at worst he's average among LTs. You have to pay him the going rate if not more cause you already got 4 years on one hell of a bargain. Panthers have invested 4 years and can not allow him good/great/average pass pro to walk. 

Heres another deal, the best LT is Trent williams and he is 37 years old. Id 100% take Icky over him right now, all based on age. Toss another comment, love it or hate it he's very similar in ways to Dbrown who's sorta "sucks"(borrowing Icky haters words) at pass rushing, while being great at run defense. Icky great at run and "sucks"(BS he's average or better) at pass protection. Just like dbrown there's no off-field non-sense and Panthers paid Dbrown. They should do the same with Icky. 

I trust that we will. Dan wanta to be practical, but also is a realist. We paid Jaycee despite the injuries; we'll pay Icky despite his pass blocking imperfections, which mainly comes down to what I call "brain farts," a.k.a. inconsistencies. The only way I can't see is paying him is that if his play just falls off a cliff, and I don't think that's realistic. Even then we may him, just at a contract commensurate with his level of production. I'd prefer they get him his money before the season, that way we'll get better value, but who knows?

[frankw]

31 minutes ago, Basbear said:

My deal is after years of straight up weak ass players playing soft, I more than welcome this confidence. He just needs to beware that its a thin line to cockiness and that's what you DO NOT want.  

I hope he does "break teppers pockets" in 3-4 years, I low key loved that line to the owner of ALL people....plus the fact its David Tepper the only 100% owner......I hope he's as good as he thinks he is.....

Panthers do have a loser mentality same as hornets. New blood can help change that, by the looks of everything....... Panthers have some rookies that are not going to fall in line with the loser sink of the past 6 years. I mean nearly everyone UDFAs, 2025 drafted class, and free agent class that's one hell of culture adjustment.  

The loser mentality is definitely prevalent unfortunately. It can even trickle down to the fanbase and if you've looked around enough you've seen it. Although I think Hornets fans are wired differently than Panthers fans in that regard.

The biggest thing with Princely or any of these other 1st or 2nd year players is backing it up. And there is a thin line between confidence and being a cocky jackass. But for now we definitely need more alpha energy and guys willing to set an example and I welcome it with open arms. Think about how much this fanbase griped about Brian Burns. That's why I've said just let these young guys be themselves and see where it takes us. Don't try to squash their confidence over small things. That's what we've been begging for so let it play out.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, TD alt said:

And, for the record, PFF refers to its stats (and not just as a name):

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-premium-stats-highlighting-all-of-pffs-advanced-metrics-and-grades

 

They don't grade "arbitrarily" either, they use their system.

Is English your native language?

[TD alt]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Is English your native language?

Is it yours?

[TD alt]

PFF explicitly said that they use advanced statistics, but you're saying they don't, and I don't understand English. Like I said, @LinvilleGorgeyou just want to be contentious. Out of everything in the thread and me even talking about Icky despite PFF, that's what you hone in on. LOL

[LinvilleGorge]

They don't use stats for their player grades. Period. They straight up tell you that.

https://www.pff.com/grades

"Their system" was arbitrarily created by them.

A PFF grade reflects PFF's opinion of a player's performance based on an evaluation system they constructed. That's it, that's all. It's a piece of information. It's not an end all be all of anything.

[TD alt]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

They don't use stats for their player grades. Period. They straight up tell you that.

https://www.pff.com/grades

"Their system" was arbitrarily created by them.

A PFF grade reflects PFF's opinion of a player's performance based on an evaluation system they constructed. That's it, that's all. It's a piece of information. It's not an end all be all of anything.

[Icege]

4 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

PFF grades aren't stats.

Which grades were incorrect?

Not defending LLMs in case I'm giving the impression. I'm just more interested in reviewing the data to make sure it's correct before debating it.

I'd check PFF myself (got a sub) but am fn dying at Legoland in Florida while my 9yr old runs rampant.

Edited July 27, 2025 by Icege

[Butterflyj30]

I love his confidence

[TD alt]

18 minutes ago, frankw said:

The loser mentality is definitely prevalent unfortunately. It can even trickle down to the fanbase and if you've looked around enough you've seen it. Although I think Hornets fans are wired differently than Panthers fans in that regard.

The biggest thing with Princely or any of these other 1st or 2nd year players is backing it up. And there is a thin line between confidence and being a cocky jackass. But for now we definitely need more alpha energy and guys willing to set an example and I welcome it with open arms. Think about how much this fanbase griped about Brian Burns. That's why I've said just let these young guys be themselves and see where it takes us. Don't try to squash their confidence over small things. That's what we've been begging for so let it play out.

Umanmielen's  confidence obviously isn't going to be squashed by much of anything. He's come to play from day one.

[TD alt]

9 minutes ago, Icege said:

Which grades were incorrect?

Not defending LLMs in case I'm giving the impression. I'm just more interested in reviewing the data to make sure it's correct before debating it.

I'd check PFF myself (got a sub) but am fn dying at Legoland in Florida while my 9yr old runs rampant.

No need to review data according to some. What is this "data" of which you speak? Could it be advanced statistics? Surely not!

 

Edited July 27, 2025 by TD alt

[TD alt]

https://www.pff.com/news/pff-fc-all-you-need-to-know-about-how-grades-are-calculated?utm_source=chatgpt.com

To establish the expectation for each grade, PFF uses statistical models. These models learn what typically happens in a given scenario for each facet of play by using characteristics of the event as explanatory variables and the given play-by-play grade as the response variable.