Panthers playbook Cox and Rhea review of the game

[TD alt]

14 hours ago, CRA said:

I’ve seen that throw before.   BY does it all the time.  He fades everything into the sideline.  It’s part of why we have one of the lowest threatening Os in the league. It makes for tough catches.  

Almost every QB in the league can make those two redzone throws.  Now they can’t all get to the ad lib scramble drill part.   Lot of that is just luck because the play has gone out the window. 

the only really nice aspect of Bryce’s game is he does have some nice wiggle and ad lib ability.  And I always say that.   But he is tiny so that is sort of cursed blessing. 

you can lecture me for not knowing football.  People do it pretty consistent this part of the year for the last several years. 

but yeah it was a great catch by TMac.   TMac was one on one vs a backup with NO ONE over the top….it was also an opportunity to see if TMac can really get vertical in this league which is a question mark.  Either the throw or playcall took that away.  Maybe it was never a real go ball call.   His highlights to date largely have been with dudes (backup types) all over him making really tough grabs when he gets vertical opportunity 

I don't know if you missed this when I posted it, but I feel compelled to post it again. It may help give you some food for thought as to what leads to successful QB play, as well as WR play in the league. I think that you may be unduly critical of Bryce and Tetairoa due to perceived limitations. Both can actually be successful, notwithstanding perceived or even real limitations.

The go-route isn't necessarily the best route in terms of efficiency, and the average go route as far as air yards is only a little over 20+ yards. Moreover, receivers get markedly more separation on the post and corner routes, and routes in general that break inwards as opposed to outbreaking routes. The go-route may be good in that it keeps defenses honest, and is great when the target is hit, but in terms of efficiency, it's arguably the least effective and gives the QB a lower probability of hitting the target, and generally limits a receivers ability to separate. But, peruse the article because I believe it may give you some insight.

https://www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-intro-to-new-route-recognition-model#:~:text=Targeted%20pass%20catchers%20on%20posts,)%20and%20slant%20(%2B0.26)

When NFL analysts say that deep throws are throws more than 20 yards, they have a reason for doing it based on averages, and Bryce was pretty good at throwing deep passes later last season. Tetairoa was not only effective in college due to making some nice deep catches, but some analysts contend that he was even better on crossers or in the slot where he could find the soft part in a defense and then follow it up with YAC. And, to top it off he was the second-ranked WR in the nation last season at breaking tackles.

I think we'll be just fine with Bryce and Tetairoa, as long as Bryce continues his trajectory that he began last year.

Edited yesterday at 10:49 AM by TD alt

[Icege]

24 minutes ago, TD alt said:

I don't know if you missed this when I posted it, but I feel compelled to post it again. It may help give you some food for thought as to what leads to successful QB play, as well as WR play in the league. I think that you may be unduly critical of Bryce and Tetairoa due to perceived limitations. Both can actually be successful, notwithstanding perceived or even real limitations.

The go-route isn't necessarily the best route in terms of efficiency, and the average go route as far as air yards is only a little over 20+ yards. Moreover, receivers get markedly more separation on the post and corner routes, and routes in general that break inwards as opposed to outbreaking routes. The go-route may be good in that it keeps defenses honest, and is great when the target is hit, but in terms of efficiency, it's arguably the least effective and gives the QB a lower probability of hitting the target, and generally limits a receivers ability to separate. But, peruse the article because I believe it may give you some insight.

https://www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-intro-to-new-route-recognition-model#:~:text=Targeted%20pass%20catchers%20on%20posts,)%20and%20slant%20(%2B0.26)

When NFL analysts say that deep throws are throws more than 20 yards, they have a reason for doing it based on averages, and Bryce was pretty good at throwing deep passes later last season. Tetairoa was not only effective in college due to making some nice deep catches, but some analysts contend that he was even better on crossers or in the slot where he could find the soft part in a defense and then follow it up with YAC. And, to top it off he was the second-ranked WR in the nation last season at breaking tackles.

I think we'll be just fine with Bryce and Tetairoa, as long as Bryce continues his trajectory that he began last year.

Beer for the article. Was just reading it yesterday and it has a lot of good info in it.

[CRA]

13 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

 

Yes, if/when a team leaves themselves vulnerable over the top and we get the right 1 on 1 matchup, you need to take the shot.  

Not conflating.

You literally just stated my point.  opportunity existed to work on a weak aspect of ours.   In an ideal scenario.  Browns backups gave us the look and chance to work on it.   We didn’t take that. 

defenses have cheated coverage for 2 seasons against us with  Bryce.  Because when a D presents a vulnerable coverage they still don’t worry about.  Carolina under BY either can’t or doesn’t take the throw consistently.  

I want them to work on weakness.  You want Bryce throwing underneath and to the sidelines and fixated on what he does well.  All this is, is a disagreement on what this team should be working on  

[CRA]

5 hours ago, TD alt said:

I don't know if you missed this when I posted it, but I feel compelled to post it again. It may help give you some food for thought as to what leads to successful QB play, as well as WR play in the league. I think that you may be unduly critical of Bryce and Tetairoa due to perceived limitations. Both can actually be successful, notwithstanding perceived or even real limitations.

The go-route isn't necessarily the best route in terms of efficiency, and the average go route as far as air yards is only a little over 20+ yards. Moreover, receivers get markedly more separation on the post and corner routes, and routes in general that break inwards as opposed to outbreaking routes. The go-route may be good in that it keeps defenses honest, and is great when the target is hit, but in terms of efficiency, it's arguably the least effective and gives the QB a lower probability of hitting the target, and generally limits a receivers ability to separate. But, peruse the article because I believe it may give you some insight.

https://www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-intro-to-new-route-recognition-model#:~:text=Targeted%20pass%20catchers%20on%20posts,)%20and%20slant%20(%2B0.26)

When NFL analysts say that deep throws are throws more than 20 yards, they have a reason for doing it based on averages, and Bryce was pretty good at throwing deep passes later last season. Tetairoa was not only effective in college due to making some nice deep catches, but some analysts contend that he was even better on crossers or in the slot where he could find the soft part in a defense and then follow it up with YAC. And, to top it off he was the second-ranked WR in the nation last season at breaking tackles.

I think we'll be just fine with Bryce and Tetairoa, as long as Bryce continues his trajectory that he began last year.

No one calling the go route efficient or something BY should be doing all game.  We are a low ceiling offense for a variety of reasons.  

Not being able to back teams up and make them pay for cheating coverage is one of them.  

it’s not about TMac.  This inability of our offense has been steadily discussed.  It’s a convo about trying to get better where you need to improve….specifically when given the opportunity in ideal spots to work.  

Even the broadcast crew called the opportunity in real time.  We just didn’t take it. We did what we always do 

[tukafan21]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

Not conflating.

You literally just stated my point.  opportunity existed to work on a weak aspect of ours.   In an ideal scenario.  Browns backups gave us the look and chance to work on it.   We didn’t take that. 

defenses have cheated coverage for 2 seasons against us with  Bryce.  Because when a D presents a vulnerable coverage they still don’t worry about.  Carolina under BY either can’t or doesn’t take the throw consistently.  

I want them to work on weakness.  You want Bryce throwing underneath and to the sidelines and fixated on what he does well.  All this is, is a disagreement on what this team should be working on  

No, the point your missing is that getting that timing down on the route/pass they're going to be running much more frequently, is more important in game 1 than taking the shot downfield because they're not as good at that one.

It's better for them to be excellent at one thing and average at another than to be slightly above average at both.  Because when push comes to shove, you're going to call the plays that you do excellent, not the ones you do at an above average execution.

I'm not saying never take the shot in the preseason, but the first chance you get for the two of them to get a real in game situation, it's much more prudent to work on the route/pass that will be used more frequently this year.  

And it's not like we're talking about a 10 yard button hook route here either, it was a 30 yard lofted over the head back shoulder catch, that ain't easy.  If they get that route down, it's near indefensible when T-Mac gets 1 on 1 coverage, no matter who the defender is on him.  That's a ball the CB can't break up and it comes down to T-Mac making the catch, which he does far more often than not.

[tukafan21]

7 hours ago, TD alt said:

I don't know if you missed this when I posted it, but I feel compelled to post it again. It may help give you some food for thought as to what leads to successful QB play, as well as WR play in the league. I think that you may be unduly critical of Bryce and Tetairoa due to perceived limitations. Both can actually be successful, notwithstanding perceived or even real limitations.

The go-route isn't necessarily the best route in terms of efficiency, and the average go route as far as air yards is only a little over 20+ yards. Moreover, receivers get markedly more separation on the post and corner routes, and routes in general that break inwards as opposed to outbreaking routes. The go-route may be good in that it keeps defenses honest, and is great when the target is hit, but in terms of efficiency, it's arguably the least effective and gives the QB a lower probability of hitting the target, and generally limits a receivers ability to separate. But, peruse the article because I believe it may give you some insight.

https://www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-intro-to-new-route-recognition-model#:~:text=Targeted%20pass%20catchers%20on%20posts,)%20and%20slant%20(%2B0.26)

When NFL analysts say that deep throws are throws more than 20 yards, they have a reason for doing it based on averages, and Bryce was pretty good at throwing deep passes later last season. Tetairoa was not only effective in college due to making some nice deep catches, but some analysts contend that he was even better on crossers or in the slot where he could find the soft part in a defense and then follow it up with YAC. And, to top it off he was the second-ranked WR in the nation last season at breaking tackles.

I think we'll be just fine with Bryce and Tetairoa, as long as Bryce continues his trajectory that he began last year.

I think it depends on your definition of "better" for the deep catches vs the crossers or slot plays he made in college.

Because yes, he was probably more effective on them as it got him more open and he could catch the ball in stride to get YAC, just the nature of those routes.  But the types of plays he makes down the field are ones that there are only a small handful of players in this league that can make them on a regular basis.  

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

No, the point your missing is that getting that timing down on the route/pass they're going to be running much more frequently, is more important in game 1 than taking the shot downfield because they're not as good at that one.

It's better for them to be excellent at one thing and average at another than to be slightly above average at both.  Because when push comes to shove, you're going to call the plays that you do excellent, not the ones you do at an above average execution.

I'm not saying never take the shot in the preseason, but the first chance you get for the two of them to get a real in game situation, it's much more prudent to work on the route/pass that will be used more frequently this year.  

And it's not like we're talking about a 10 yard button hook route here either, it was a 30 yard lofted over the head back shoulder catch, that ain't easy.  If they get that route down, it's near indefensible when T-Mac gets 1 on 1 coverage, no matter who the defender is on him.  That's a ball the CB can't break up and it comes down to T-Mac making the catch, which he does far more often than not.

you are just arguing my preference shouldn’t my preference of what they work on

and it sounds like they will only get 3 more series this entire preseason….and might never get that look again.  NFL teams take that shot. We need practice on it more than any team in the NFL.  Should have taken advantage of that.  That will remain my preference.  And I you can prefer BY spend preseason doing what he does well.  Until BY and the Panthers prove they can add new stuff to their offense it will continue to be one the lowest ceiling Os in the NFL IMO

[tukafan21]

44 minutes ago, CRA said:

you are just arguing my preference shouldn’t my preference of what they work on

and it sounds like they will only get 3 more series this entire preseason….and might never get that look again.  NFL teams take that shot. We need practice on it more than any team in the NFL.  Should have taken advantage of that.  That will remain my preference.  And I you can prefer BY spend preseason doing what he does well.  Until BY and the Panthers prove they can add new stuff to their offense it will continue to be one the lowest ceiling Os in the NFL IMO

No, I'm saying your preference is just wrong.  I get your wanting of us taking a shot, but I'm just saying the pass they did call was the more prudent call to make in game 1 for them.  

It's not about Bryce spending the preseason on what he does well, it's about Bryce and T-Mac getting their timing down ASAP, and taking a deep shot isn't going to help that, but the play they did make, 100% will.

That's not a preference, that's just the way it is, it's so much more important for them to get that timing down than to practice something they're not as good at, they can do that at practice all day if they want, game timing is something you can only replicate in a game.

[cranky]

On 8/9/2025 at 9:00 AM, CRA said:

zero YAC from starters.  Still waiting for evidence we can be something other than a low ceiling offense (which is what the Dave O was).  

People tripping out over that TMac catch.  It’s was a great catch.  But essentially it is classic Panthers play under Bryce.  A go route opportunity.  Turned out to be fade to the sideline.  Threat of nothing after the catch.  Incomplete or catch given where the ball was placed.   

 

 

 

 

Are you ever happy man lol.

[TD alt]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

you are just arguing my preference shouldn’t my preference of what they work on

and it sounds like they will only get 3 more series this entire preseason….and might never get that look again.  NFL teams take that shot. We need practice on it more than any team in the NFL.  Should have taken advantage of that.  That will remain my preference.  And I you can prefer BY spend preseason doing what he does well.  Until BY and the Panthers prove they can add new stuff to their offense it will continue to be one the lowest ceiling Os in the NFL IMO

I get what you're saying. I do. But at the same time, I think that you're saying that you just don't really believe that Bryce has taken a step forward from bad Bryce to good Bryce. I don't think that you've really recognized the difference between Bryce of the last 10 games last season, and even much less the last three games of last season, and even lesser still the last game of last season, and Bryce before he was benched. You're not recognizing what appears to be an upward trajectory. Now I am not saying that it will continue, because I don't know, but on its face there was improvement and progress based upon the path of last season. So, in my opinion, you're discounting what was undeniable. I will say that being where the state of the franchise was coming from and in, there were growing pains from top to bottom during the beginning of a major transition. I'm sure that all the instability that comes in the aftermath of a train wreck didn't help with the offense's ceiling. With all that was going on, of course we had a so-called "low ceiling offense." But, again, the offense showed the last three weeks that maybe the ceiling wasn't as low as it appears. Now, you add in the continuity for Bryce, the O-line and a receiver who many thought was the best pure receiver in the draft (as well as possibly a veteran route technician in the slot and/or maybe an underappreciated spark plug that was playing in the giant shadow of a Heisman trophy winner), then the ceiling appears to be even higher. I don't know that we need to "add new stuff" to the offense (I don't know, maybe), but I do think that if we execute the offense efficiently, it will go a long ways towards giving headaches to the defensive opposition. 

Like I said before, if Bryce can just continue his ascension, I think we'll be OK. Bama Bryce, the one that has a command of the offense and give defenses fits off-schedule, gives the team a great opportunity to make legitimate noise in the league.

Edited 21 hours ago by TD alt

[CRA]

37 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

No, I'm saying your preference is just wrong.  I get your wanting of us taking a shot, but I'm just saying the pass they did call was the more prudent call to make in game 1 for them.  

It's not about Bryce spending the preseason on what he does well, it's about Bryce and T-Mac getting their timing down ASAP, and taking a deep shot isn't going to help that, but the play they did make, 100% will.

That's not a preference, that's just the way it is, it's so much more important for them to get that timing down than to practice something they're not as good at, they can do that at practice all day if they want, game timing is something you can only replicate in a game.

lol.  My preference can’t be wrong.  It’s literally what I want to see them doing. 

You can prefer they spend all their real game speed time repping on what we already know this QB can do…..my preference is when the stars align to get a good look stacked to their favor to work on a weakness in this O they work on that 

Canales has already said these dudes ain’t really playing as much as my preference on that too.  BY could use way more work than 2 total quarters in a preseason.  Still light work given what he is and isn’t at this stage 

[CRA]

39 minutes ago, TD alt said:

I get what you're saying. I do. But at the same time, I think that you're saying that you just don't really believe that Bryce has taken a step forward from bad Bryce to good Bryce. I don't think that you've really recognized the difference between Bryce of the last 10 games last season, and even much less the last three games of last season, and even lesser still the last game of last season, and Bryce before he was benched. You're not recognizing what appears to be an upward trajectory. Now I am not saying that it will continue, because I don't know, but on its face there was improvement and progress based upon the path of last season. So, in my opinion, you're discounting what was undeniable. I will say that being where the state of the franchise was coming from and in, there were growing pains from top to bottom during the beginning of a major transition. I'm sure that all the instability that comes in the aftermath of a train wreck didn't help with the offense's ceiling. With all that was going on, of course we had a so-called "low ceiling offense." But, again, the offense showed the last three weeks that maybe the ceiling wasn't as low as it appears. Now, you add in the continuity for Bryce, the O-line and a receiver who many thought was the best pure receiver in the draft (as well as possibly a veteran route technician in the slot and/or maybe an underappreciated spark plug that was playing in the giant shadow of a Heisman trophy winner), then the ceiling appears to be even higher. I don't know that we need to "add new stuff" to the offense (I don't know, maybe), but I do think that if we execute the offense efficiently, it will go a long ways towards giving headaches to the defensive opposition. 

Like I said before, if Bryce can just continue his ascension, I think we'll be OK. Bama Bryce, the one that has a command of the offense and give defenses fits off-schedule, gives the team a great opportunity to make legitimate noise in the league.

I recognize that last year was essentially BY’s rookie year in all reality.  Spoken on that a lot.  And the sophomore adjustment is coming for BY and what Dave managed to pull off with him last year.  BY and Dave got to add more to this O….because even the post benching BY pass attack was low ceiling, non threatening and middle of the road.  We went from horrific to middle of the road.  I recognize that.   Huge jump. And admittedly, I think given how mind blowing his rise from the dead was…..it causes people to now overstate what BY is.  

To me he is an old Brees with great wiggle/legs (minus a career of high level QB experience in his memory bank). 

[mc52beast]

I’m pretty sure Bryce lost the most amount of yards due to drops last year, it’s pretty irritating. I’m about done with Legette, he provides more entertainment when he’s not playing than when he is. But yeh, Morgan has done a really good job since taking over for that clown Fitterer. He had a mess to clean up and is on his way to doing that. 

[TD alt]

“I even told him today coming off the sideline, I’m like, ‘Man, I like what you’re doing out there. Just keep doing it—we’re gonna connect, “I told him, ‘Don’t worry -- I’m gonna try and make your job easier.’”

-Tetairoa McMillan to Bryce Young

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/what-panthers-wr-tetairoa-mcmillan-said-about-bryce-young-after-first-game-together-01k2abf7esfk