Bryce Young has now played one full seasons worth of games since returning from his benching in 2024

[tukafan21]

3 minutes ago, TN05 said:

If arm strength decided who the best QB was JaMarcus Russell would have been a hall of famer

And Joe Milton would be an MVP candidate this year, not the Cowboys backup QB.

The argument is pretty simple, does Bryce have a strong enough arm to be a successful starting QB in this league.

And the answer is even simpler...

No.

Anything else doesn't matter, he's just flat out proven that he can't make the minimum required throws at a high enough level to be even an average starting QB, let alone anything better than that.

Edited 3 hours ago by tukafan21

[carpanfan96]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

And poo... now that I think about it, you're trying to say he has "average or slightly below average arm strength" but saying that in comparison to the what, 90ish QB's currently on a roster or practice squad right now?

So your argument FOR our QB is that he has about the 45-60ish strongest arm in the NFL and you think that's a winning argument in support of Bryce?

If you've paid attention I've said already multiple times that he isn't a starting NFL QB. I said this before the draft, I had him rated third at QB. 

I had him rated behind AR, who I said would need a year or two on the bench before starting. 

[carpanfan96]

12 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

If there were handfuls of backup QB's who were good enough to be starters in this league, then you'd have an argument on your hands.  But when there are current starting QB's who aren't even good enough to actually be starting QB's in this league, you can't then compare a supposed to be franchise QB to those back-ups.

QB is the most unique position in all of sports, by a very very wide margin.  

Trying to compare your starting QB to the backups as a selling point for said starting QB is such a crazy notion that it hurts my brain to think how anyone could honestly think that's the case.

It basically would be like comparing a MLB player to the "average professional baseball player" and looking at all minor leaguers in that as well.

Saying Bryce has an "average arm" when he's literally likely ranked 32nd out of the 32 starting QB's in arm strength is ceratinly some hill to die on.

That's how the draft works, dunno what to tell you. 

QB has the lowest hit rate

I'll use Bryce as an example. 

The scouting department that drafted him (one that is still largely the same now) thought he would excel in a quick strike offense when his size and ability to read a defense literally makes that the worst aspect of his game. 

[carpanfan96]

5 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

If you've paid attention I've said already multiple times that he isn't a starting NFL QB. I said this before the draft, I had him rated third at QB. 

I had him rated behind AR, who I said would need a year or two on the bench before starting. 

Add on to this. 

That means I thought Bryce needed the same amount of time on the sidelines before starting because his mechanics needed fixing before being thrown on the field. 

Additionally if starting him, you need to be able to scheme him a throwing lane up the middle so the whole field is open to him when he drops back. 

The Panthers didn't fix his mechanics, they didn't have an offense set up to scheme him throws over the middle consistently and didn't draw off his biggest strength as a thrower which is numbers out to the boundary. 

 

None of the above even started happening til Canales got here and Bryce was benched. Throwing him on the field as a rookie in an offense that didn't fit his traits and skills set literally ruined what chance he had at being an NFL starting QB. 

[tukafan21]

Just now, carpanfan96 said:

That's how the draft works, dunno what to tell you. 

QB has the lowest hit rate

I'll use Bryce as an example. 

The scouting department that drafted him (one that is still largely the same now) thought he would excel in a quick strike offense when his size and ability to read a defense literally makes that the worst aspect of his game. 

But that's not what we're talking about, nor what you said earlier.

You said he "has an average to below average arm strength" which in itself is an extremely disingenuous argument to make for a starting QB if in your head, you're comparing him to all draft eligible QB's (which even then, I'm still not sure it would be accurate anyways, but that's beyond the point).

We're not talking about whether or not Bryce is good enough (or if just his arm is good enough) to be a backup or practice squad QB.  We're discussing the merits of him being our starting QB of the future, so by nature, comparing him to anything other than the other starting QB's is just asinine.

I'd bet my life savings, that if you ranked every QB over the last 5 years to attempt to make an NFL roster, Bryce would not crack the 80th percentile of arm strength, and that still might be generous of me to say he could be that high up the list.

You keep pointing to him throwing the ball 50-60 yards in college.  Well I hate to break it to you, but I'm not sure there is any starting QB in college who can't throw the ball that far when they have perfect balance and can step into a throw, that's basically the bare minimum requirement at that level.

And I'm not saying this to say Bryce is the worst QB in the history of the game of football.  He does have certain things that he does well, and I do think he'd be a more than serviceable backup and the type of guy who can bounce around year to year as a gap year starter at times.  

But objectively, he has one of the weakest arms of any starting QB in recent memory, that's not really debatable.

[tukafan21]

3 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

Add on to this. 

That means I thought Bryce needed the same amount of time on the sidelines before starting because his mechanics needed fixing before being thrown on the field. 

Additionally if starting him, you need to be able to scheme him a throwing lane up the middle so the whole field is open to him when he drops back. 

The Panthers didn't fix his mechanics, they didn't have an offense set up to scheme him throws over the middle consistently and didn't draw off his biggest strength as a thrower which is numbers out to the boundary. 

 

None of the above even started happening til Canales got here and Bryce was benched. Throwing him on the field as a rookie in an offense that didn't fit his traits and skills set literally ruined what chance he had at being an NFL starting QB. 

Sure, all fair points that can't be argued against.

But not a single one of them changes his arm strength problem.  

And pointing to a Heisman trophy winner being able to throw the ball a max of 60 air yards in college, isn't exactly helping your case about him having average arm strength.

He was college great and had college adequate arm strength, but that doesn't cut it in the NFL, not by a long shot.

Edited 3 hours ago by tukafan21

[Moose Hoover]

18 hours ago, 45catfan said:

Purgatory QB.  

Need to bring in russ wilson

[carpanfan96]

4 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Sure, all fair points that can't be argued against.

But not a single one of them changes his arm strength problem.

His biggest strength at QB is deep throws outside the numbers to the boundary. 

Deep in NFL terms is over 20 yards. 

It's why I joked earlier in the season that all you had to do was run a zone focused on the flat and deep boundary and you take away most of his throws. 

 

I posted this earlier in the thread. 

 

"Carolina is no longer forcing him into a box as a quick-game distributor, which could be the weakest part of Young’s game and the one most affected by his height; instead, Canales is setting him up for more downfield throws aimed outside the numbers. Young has the touch, timing, and accuracy to pull those throws off." 

 

Those deep boundary throws is what he's excelled at since becoming the starter again.  

[electro's horse]

Also it’s really dumb to selectively take part of one season and then add it to the part of another and try to draw some kind of conclusion from it. 

Bryce defenders think this looks good but it just comes across as desperate.

 

[Jon Snow]

7 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Also it’s really dumb to selectively take part of one season and then add it to the part of another and try to draw some kind of conclusion from it. 

Bryce defenders think this looks good but it just comes across as desperate.

 

It is what it is as old Foxy loved to say. I would warn against drawing any conclusions other than we really don't have a franchise qb and are currently working with a backup level qb. I'll let you decide if we have more than 1 backup. 

[SetfreexX]

17 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Ready to sign him to a 5 year 220m contract with 160m guaranteed with those numbers at the end of the season?

This, all these people hyping him while on a ROOKIE DEAL!

[SetfreexX]

1 hour ago, tukafan21 said:

Sure, all fair points that can't be argued against.

But not a single one of them changes his arm strength problem.  

And pointing to a Heisman trophy winner being able to throw the ball a max of 60 air yards in college, isn't exactly helping your case about him having average arm strength.

He was college great and had college adequate arm strength, but that doesn't cut it in the NFL, not by a long shot.

I remember The Golden Calf of Bristol winning a Heisman, I remember Matt Leinart winning one, Vince Young...among others, why are we trying to justify NFL ineptitude via collegiate accolades, on ONE of the best teams in college that year....???

When you gotta go back to college THREE years into his career that should tell you something.

[tukafan21]

3 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

I remember The Golden Calf of Bristol winning a Heisman, I remember Matt Leinart winning one, Vince Young...among others, why are we trying to justify NFL ineptitude via collegiate accolades, on ONE of the best teams in college that year....???

When you gotta go back to college THREE years into his career that should tell you something.

He's thrown 1,135 passes in the NFL, but here's him doing something in college as proof that he can do the thing he hasn't been able to do in those 1,135 passes yet.

[strato]

54 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

He's thrown 1,135 passes in the NFL, but here's him doing something in college as proof that he can do the thing he hasn't been able to do in those 1,135 passes yet.

I made my judgement before the 2023 draft over what I saw on video and it was just ridiculous with the Bruce advocates using college to speculate all summer long. You can’t successfully argue against it because there are no examples of him playing vs veteran NFL talent. 
It was really hard to just sit back and watch all the cock sure fapping. All based on college tape. 
Most of the same people are still fighting that fight though. 
Don’t believe your lying eyes - I have the stats right here that will prove you didn’t see that.