One man’s trash…

[strato]

1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

Imagine being the valedictorian for your Ivy League university. Perfect grades, massively well done final projects, research grants and countless mentions in the newspapers and on TV for the strides you made.

And there are only 32 employers out there that can hire you and make use of you. Now imagine that the worst businesses, the ones with the least resources and most chaotic workplaces get first dibs on you.

Trumpian dystopia? Nope. The NFL draft. Killing young QBs since day 1.

Well, you aren’t really joking there but at the same time, talent will out. Cam in our case.  Manning. All the guys that people pointed to when Bryce sucked his first year, and said they struggled too…

 It is such a crap shoot.. but better than it was before they slotted the pay into a reasonable stratosphere. Talk about killing your franchise paying the equivalent of modern day 50-60 million per, to a green rookie….

[mrcompletely11]

52 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Why lie? At that point Young hadn’t played at all for us. It’s funny that people won’t believe the story we heard at 0% hot seat. They would rather believe what another huddle says he feels with 0 actual proof.

Bro, they literally said everyone in the building wanted bryce.  From tepper down to the scouts they literally said everyone.  By human nature that simply cant be true.  They are just saying that to show unity in the pick.  I can promise not everyone wanted him over stroud or whoever

[Waldo]

4 minutes ago, strato said:

Okay. I mean we are just discussing. 
I never saw Tua as being really a valid guy in tne league. But I am prejudiced against Alabama QBs because of their basic mediocre track records stepping up to the NFL so zi was probably predisposed and biased. But still correct.
FWIW Bryce was such a physical outliee Bama didn’t really enter my thinking. It never became a factor for me. 
Anyhow Murray was kind of a toy, by my standards and not a guy I would have been excited by. Then it got to the contract clause of mandating film study and the game was lost right there. Why would you pay a guy you thought needed the stick instead of the carrot? 
I am just a tools first guy, for gaining admittance to move into the more thorough evaluation phase. It won’t change. 
I just have always been you have to meet the threshold physically before we consider your other areas of potential as a pro. 
Which I believe Jones passed that threshold. And has shown some flashes.  Sure is doing it this year. 
The contention about what how pressure of a big contract might affect his performance, how the roster might lose a player or two two due to his salary precluding paying them, that is something else.

If he continues to compete at this level like he is so far, I would put money on someone paying him though. And we will see what happens. 
 

oops forgot about Darnold. I saw it in him in late ‘22. The ability and him being on the cusp of getting it. He has lived up to the prove it deals, zi don’t what they gave him in Seattle but it seems to be a good choice so far… 

Darnold is making 13 this year and 20 more next. It won't show until next year. Darnold has done a lot of good but his biggest issue is he chokes when it's put on his shoulders. Looks good when it's not. Now bring in a rookie to develop and it gets more positive IMO. Journeyman and fine at the right price...which is not set up well in 26 for them.

Murray is all physicals and little else. They proved you can't win with him on a rookie deal but he is 'their' guy so it never mattered IMO.

Tua was overhyped and couldn't carry poo but did look great when playing  the worst teams. 

Again, Jones has never had a good non-contract year. Physically he has the tools and mentally he has matured but Im not seeing special or top teir. I still think Baker and the Bucs lead that list and is the only ones doing it well in the pay to value conversation. He is making what Darnold signed with more guarantees. That is the sweet spot for value to cost while Darnold isn't, even if they delayed the bill by a year. Murray is making about 50% than those 2 and around 60% more than Jones which is completely insane to me. Tua's contract is even worse than Murray's. I never had an issue with a loaner QB tries here, after Teddy. It was they way they did it and the staff doing it that was my biggest issues. Don't expect a savior, just get a contributor and put them is a spot to succeed. 

[kungfoodude]

12 minutes ago, Waldo said:

The supply and demand reality is a big part of the issue but so are teams willingness to overpay even with the obvious issues it raises. They make their profit win or loss and it shows. Arizona hasn't been a contender for most of Murray's career but they keep him around because of supply & demand AND the fact that the owner wins regardless so why not hide behind s&d while keeping the norm going? No reason to play it the hard way, let a guy walk to be overpaid and then find a cast off that can be put in an overall better situation. Too much gamble when the house wins anyways.

Also there is the reality of being mediocre like Arizona with the hope of potentially being good versus what we chose, which was to implode the entire organization, burn every aspect of its history and then promptly rebrand as the biggest joke in the NFL. 

So sometimes when you are faced with a neverending hellish existence that is perpetually attempting a destruction and rebuild cycle, the specter of relative mediocrity doesn't seem that bad. At least there is still some level of hope left.

We as Panther fans know this all too well. How we wish for the simpler days of John Fox and Ron Rivera.

[Waldo]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Also there is the reality of being mediocre like Arizona with the hope of potentially being good versus what we chose, which was to implode the entire organization, burn every aspect of its history and then promptly rebrand as the biggest joke in the NFL. 

So sometimes when you are faced with a neverending hellish existence that is perpetually attempting a destruction and rebuild cycle, the specter of relative mediocrity doesn't seem that bad. At least there is still some level of hope left.

We as Panther fans know this all too well. How we wish for the simpler days of John Fox and Ron Rivera.

I agree but also the Fox/Rivera mediocrity was feast or famine. Arizona bearly hits mediocrity at best and usually worse. Letting Rhule lead the teardown was such a multiplier of pain that it can't be understated. 

[strato]

14 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Bro, they literally said everyone in the building wanted bryce.  From tepper down to the scouts they literally said everyone.  By human nature that simply cant be true.  They are just saying that to show unity in the pick.  I can promise not everyone wanted him over stroud or whoever

I am just a hard head that is entrenched in the idea that if you played the game for real than you know what it takes. Better than someone who has not. And will not be so easily fooled by something like an S2, media opinions, and surely not bloated water weight at a weigh in  

And are likely to to value the physical toolkit because you have seen how big and fast and violent the game is up close. You had to compete with those players. 
Morgan said early on, it is a big man’s game. I don’t think he excludes QB from that paradigm but just cannot say so publicly until this all plays out. and maybe privately too right now. 

[strato]

11 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I agree but also the Fox/Rivera mediocrity was feast or famine. Arizona bearly hits mediocrity at best and usually worse. Letting Rhule lead the teardown was such a multiplier of pain that it can't be understated. 

I would go with we are in famine now, with those guys it was feast or maybe TV dinners with the occasional famine.
7-9 was the running joke when predicting the record for well over a decade. 

[WhoKnows]

12 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Bro, they literally said everyone in the building wanted bryce.  From tepper down to the scouts they literally said everyone.  By human nature that simply cant be true.  They are just saying that to show unity in the pick.  I can promise not everyone wanted him over stroud or whoever

I’m not talking about when they started to do some CYA. The quote was about Frank and Fitterer being in lock step. That was said in press conferences right after the draft and before mini-camps.

The other guy gave me a huge post on why Reich is awesome. He’s doing exactly what I mentioned for the excuses.

Bottom line is that, yes, I believe there’s more truth to those early press conferences than to current day gut feelings and post-Reich/Fitterer firing rants trying to CYA.

Could it all have been lies? Sure, but nothing has actually come out proving it. Believe me and I promise don’t hold as much weight as actual spoken words after the draft/before Young snapped a ball as a Panther. Again, look at the PG poo. To this day, people still think Tepper in May saying PG means that Tepper made the pick himself even though the OC discussed QBs as PGs with a team reporter 3 months before Tepper regurgitated a snippet of that.

[MHS831]

Not that I am frequently right, but I wanted Jones.  The scheme and supporting cast makes all the difference. 

[strato]

18 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

I’m not talking about when they started to do some CYA. The quote was about Frank and Fitterer being in lock step. That was said in press conferences right after the draft and before mini-camps.

The other guy gave me a huge post on why Reich is awesome. He’s doing exactly what I mentioned for the excuses.

Bottom line is that, yes, I believe there’s more truth to those early press conferences than to current day gut feelings and post-Reich/Fitterer firing rants trying to CYA.

Could it all have been lies? Sure, but nothing has actually come out proving it. Believe me and I promise don’t hold as much weight as actual spoken words after the draft/before Young snapped a ball as a Panther. Again, look at the PG poo. To this day, people still think Tepper in May saying PG means that Tepper made the pick himself even though the OC discussed QBs as PGs with a team reporter 3 months before Tepper regurgitated a snippet of that.

If you are talking about me how are they excuses? For who?

The criticism of Reich was he was outdated in his play designs and boring and too old school. 
I wasn’t addressing that. 
I simply contended that a Reich the OC play caller that people hated does not affect his ability as a QB evaluator. Separate areas that can be separate. 

edit PS etc As you say, there isn’t proof. We likely won’t get absolute proof. 

But let’s not pretend that people don’t lie. Coaches especially lie about players to the press.  Owners lie about coaches. 
 

He is 

Edited 2 hours ago by strato

[strato]

25 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Not that I am frequently right, but I wanted Jones.  The scheme and supporting cast makes all the difference. 

I did too. Also, the media here are like little fuzzy kittens compared to NYC. 

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Waldo said:

I agree but also the Fox/Rivera mediocrity was feast or famine. Arizona bearly hits mediocrity at best and usually worse. Letting Rhule lead the teardown was such a multiplier of pain that it can't be understated. 

Well the most common record during both their tenures was 7-9. 

I was heavily against the massive teardown that most of the Huddle wanted after 2018. I kept warning people that successful franchises don't do that type of poo.

Turns out....successful franchises don't do that type of poo.

[strato]

14 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Well the most common record during both their tenures was 7-9. 

I was heavily against the massive teardown that most of the Huddle wanted after 2018. I kept warning people that successful franchises don't do that type of poo.

Turns out....successful franchises don't do that type of poo.

I have a no college coach rule. Pretty hard and fast, like my no historically undersized QBs with below average NFL arms at 1.1 rule 
 

Only waived for a coach that had higher level NFL experience prior to college like a Pete Carrol maybe. Rhule was not that at all. 
 

And the most comical and memorable example of Tepper’s ego to me will always be the “I’ll take a year to learn the business side and a year to learn the football side”. ROTFLMAO at that bullshit  

 

Edited 1 hour ago by strato

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, strato said:

I have a no college coach rule. Pretty hard and fast, like my no historically undersized QBs with below average NFL arms rule 
 

Only waived for a coach that had higher level NFL experience prior to college like a Pete Carrol maybe. Rhule was not that at all. 
 

And the most comical and memorable example of Teooer’s ego to me will always be the “I’ll take a year to learn the business side and a year to learn the football side”. ROTFLMAO at that bullshit  

 

We have literally made almost every mistake in the book, some several times, since Tepper assumed control. 

The sad truth is, we are likely doomed while he is in charge.