Okay gentlemen, REAL talk...

[CRA]

 

4 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Except he's only gotten better because those first two years had him on a path to be a bigger bust than Jamarcus Russell, he's still one of the worst starting QB's in the league this year even if he has improved each year.

Improvement that still has you as one of the worst at whatever you're doing doesn't necessarily mean you should be given longer to prove yourself.

How many teams right now would swap QB situations with us?

I think no more than 7, and quite honestly as few as possibly only 2, if any at all.

Jets, Browns, Saints, Raiders, Falcons, Jags, and Cardinals are really the only teams that I think would even entertain a swap.  And of them, the Jets, Browns, and Raiders might all prefer to just stand pat and see how their high draft slots might play out while the Falcons still might prefer to see what happens with Penix instead.  

Then the Jags and Cardinals (fan bases at least) are so fed up with their QB play given the contracts, that they might make the swap just to get out of those contracts.

Panthers have improved.  And you can zero in on why…..huge shift in defense from last year to this year. 

pass game is actually less productive this season vs last.  Call it a push if you want.   The run game and D is finding way to win some games with a bad pass attack.  

QB play is bottom of the league for 3 straight seasons.  And it’s just because the QB is the QB

[tukafan21]

17 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

If we keep winning with him, I expect him to stay.

And honestly, if we do keep winning, I won't give a sh-t how it's happening or who's most / least responsible for it.

There are different versions of "winning with him" though.

The 49ers were winning with Purdy, not because of him.  But just because they weren't winning BECAUSE of him, doesn't mean they would win with another QB either.  He still brought a unique something that makes him a perfect fit with Shannahan and a well built out offense.

We're winning with Bryce, and like Purdy, we're not winning because of him.  But we're also not winning in ways that other QB's wouldn't be able to win just as many games as Bryce has.  

The difference is that I think we'd be winning and losing different games with another QB.

Bryce does have a clutch factor to him, I've admitted as much, but it just doesn't come out all that often, and even when it does, it's not the same clutch factor as the actual elite QBs.  So we might not have won some of those late drive heroics when he's done it the handful of times, but I think we'd have won some of the others where he clearly cost us wins with his poor play.

If this was year 1 or 2, I wouldn't be saying it's time to move on, but it's year 3 and he still has way too many issues, many of which just won't ever be fixed for him (namely his arm).

Edited 1 hour ago by tukafan21

[ChibCU]

Some are still experiencing doomed depression while witnessing clear franchise progress after a terrible decade-long decline.

Is your quality of life really improving to invest 95% of your posts shouting that our QB is the worst? You aren’t part of the decision team yet you act like it’s your full-time job and side hustle income.

Having positive signs of growth is necessary for a winning and contending culture. It also means we can maybe finally get some HC and GM stability. Then, the roster can get molded each year in the right direction.

Enjoy the progress and crack a smile in real life every once in a while. Damn. 

[kungfoodude]

I think it's still hard to predict on Bryce, TBH.

Canales is probably safe at this point. Which, I honestly thought he would have been safe at a 4-5 win season too.

[Mr. Scot]

25 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

But here's my thing. If you plug in Jacoby Brissett, are we still a winning football team? Most likely yes. That's my issue. We're at the point of franchise QB defining money and I don't see the difference between what Bryce is doing and what an average NFL starter is doing. I don't care about one and done in the playoffs and off into obscurity again. I want consistent success. We haven't had it in 3 decades. An inconsistent QB in the bottom 3rd metric of starting QBs doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies that he's going to lead the team that direction either. 

The guys running the team aren't gonna play those kinds of mental games though.

[Mr. Scot]

16 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

There are different versions of "winning with him" though.

The 49ers were winning with Purdy, not because of him.  But just because they weren't winning BECAUSE of him, doesn't mean they would win with another QB either.  He still brought a unique something that makes him a perfect fit with Shannahan and a well built out offense.

We're winning with Bryce, and like Purdy, we're not winning because of him.  But we're also not winning in ways that other QB's wouldn't be able to win just as many games as Bryce has.  

The difference is that I think we'd be winning and losing different games with another QB.

Bryce does have a clutch factor to him, I've admitted as much, but it just doesn't come out all that often, and even when it does, it's not the same clutch factor as the actual elite QBs.  So we might not have won some of those late drive heroics when he's done it the handful of times, but I think we'd have won some of the others where he clearly cost us wins with his poor play.

If this was year 1 or 2, I wouldn't be saying it's time to move on, but it's year 3 and he still has way too many issues, many of which just won't ever be fixed for him (namely his arm).

Purdy got a five year, 50 plus million dollar per year contract.

That may not be the best example to cite for your argument.

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think it's still hard to predict on Bryce, TBH.

Canales is probably safe at this point. Which, I honestly thought he would have been safe at a 4-5 win season too.

I don't think it's premature to predict the option pick up.

Beyond that, though...

[SmokinwithWilly]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The guys running the team aren't gonna play those kinds of mental games though.

Hence why my problem all along has been Fitts/Morgan and the FO since we drafted Bryce and actually since 2018. We don't model ourselves after successful organizations. We've tried to blaze the trail with algorithms and metrics and RAS scores instead of just figuring out if these guys can play. 

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't think it's premature to predict the option pick up.

Beyond that, though...

I do.

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I do.

Fair enough...

[Mr. Scot]

12 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Hence why my problem all along has been Fitts/Morgan and the FO since we drafted Bryce and actually since 2018. We don't model ourselves after successful organizations. We've tried to blaze the trail with algorithms and metrics and RAS scores instead of just figuring out if these guys can play. 

We brought in a guy from a two time Lombardi winning organization.

This is only his first season.

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Fair enough...

I am not David Tepper, though. For all we know he has been leaning on them to get that $75 mil/yr deal inked since the ATL game.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I am not David Tepper, though. For all we know he has been leaning on them to get that $75 mil/yr deal inked since the ATL game.

I still don't buy that happening, but who knows right now?

All I feel certain of is him getting the option.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I still don't buy that happening, but who knows right now?

All I feel certain of is him getting the option.

It tough to get a read, TBH.

I cannot fathom how anyone with any logic in them would think Bryce is a long term solution or even worth a 5th year option.

But, it is the Panthers so you just never can tell.